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Oil consumption

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rossani
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Oil consumption

Post by rossani on Sat 04 Jun 2011, 12:59 am

Hi,
CB500 1997 20,000. Had to top up the oil today as it was down to min. I've been putting in some longer faster runs and some two up, so the engine's working harder, using more revs. Is it usual to use some oil under these circumstances? I suppose I'm asking whether it's normal to add some oil between changes?

Thanks...
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smokiewazhere
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by smokiewazhere on Sat 04 Jun 2011, 6:49 am

wear and tear and age play a big part in the engine life so imo it would be accepable to use some oil when the engine is working hard ie through piston rings valve seals ect to a limit (as a rough guide say 1/4 of a pint between services) dont know the manufacturer limits , in the car engine the manufacturer sets a limit for how much oil is acceptable to use this i s about 0.5 litre in 1,000 miles i think of the top of my head .
if you are using a lot of oil then i would be looking for a leak or if there is a lot of smoke on cold start then valve stem oil seals aslo what you could check is get the engine warm and let it tick over for say 3=5 min then rev up and see if there is any smoke from the exhaust if there is then valve seals have hardened or there is piston wear which i doubt in a 20.000 mile engine there are additives on the market that soften up the seals but you would have to do some research into that as i have never used them hope this helps a bit regards smokie.
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kungfupoodle
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by kungfupoodle on Sat 04 Jun 2011, 10:21 am

As smokie says... although at least one manufacturer I know of requires it to lose a litre per 1000 miles before they will do any warranty work.. This can get quite expensive..

I've never had a Japanese car or bike that used a drop of oil.. even a GSXR with 70K on the clock.. however my Italian car uses a fair bit (probably 0.5l per 1000) but runs fine.

You could try different brands of oil. Some burn off faster than others. Also you could go up from 10w30 to 10w40 as it is thicker when warm and less likely to squeeze past seals - no higher though as it may not flow properly.

If it really is excessive then consider buying the cheapest oil possible that meets the specification. The fact that you're topping it up constantly with fresh stuff is likely to offer better protection than the most expensive synthetic! (although you really need to look at mechanical causes if it's over 1l per 1000miles)
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rossani
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by rossani on Sat 04 Jun 2011, 10:36 am

Thanks guys, I'm suppose I'm aware of what you've said really and if I'm honest, because it's a Honda I'm not really expecting it to use much, if any oil. I'm currently using Castrol Racing 1 10W/30, which is fully synthetic - over the top I know, but given the relatively infrequent oil changes (I don't do massive mileage) I figured I'd use something decent.

I've not noticed any smoke on startup, warm or overrun, but then I don't tend to look in my mirror every time I close the throttle. No drips or emulsion in the water - guess I'll adjust my riding style for a while and see what difference it makes...
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kungfupoodle
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by kungfupoodle on Sat 04 Jun 2011, 12:17 pm

Oil doesn't degrade much over time - it's riding it that wears it out! - so don't worry about infrequent oil changes over time.
If you're low mileage (say under 4K a year) then a yearly change with a cheap semi-synth or plain mineral oil should be fine.

Some people on other forums seem to think synthetic oils can leak pass seals more easily - I don't believe this myself as all 10w30 oil is the same viscosity no matter what it's made of but I could be wrong! I use silkolene comp 4 synthetic without a problem.

Try and figure out how much it's using before changing anything. Hopefully it's just a mildly thirsty engine!
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jchesshyre
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by jchesshyre on Sat 04 Jun 2011, 1:34 pm

My CB has 90000 on it and I was starting to think the oil consumption was a bit high. Then I realised that the oil around the side stand/gear lever/etc that I thought was chain lube was actually a leak from the gear lever shaft oil seal. It was very gradual but had got to the stage where it left a little spot on the ground after riding if I used the side stand.

Still, it took about 3000 miles to go from the top of the dipstick to near the bottom. But it *might* be worth checking this...a new seal cost me £3.80 and took about 15 mins to install!
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rossani
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by rossani on Sat 04 Jun 2011, 4:39 pm

The gear lever and sprocket seals occurred to me also. Wondered if it might be losing some oil once the engine is on the go and there's a bit of crankcase pressure, not evident during standstill... I've noticed some oil around the final drive sprocket and on the inside of the sprocket cover, but I put it down to an accumulation of oil fling after manually lubing the chain with Scottoil - perhaps it's actually from the seal...
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hayden
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by hayden on Sat 04 Jun 2011, 10:14 pm

[quote="kungfupoodle"].
Some people on other forums seem to think synthetic oils can leak pass seals more easily - quote]


I believe this is the case with air cooled engines, the guys on the `Boxertrix` ( BMW R11&12s models) website don`t go near fully synthetic, in fact many use `normal` mineral oil ie non synthetic, the thinking behind it is air cooled engines are not built to such fine tolerances, allowing for greater heat output etc.
Could be that an older high mileage bike ( or one thats had a hard life) may also benefit from this?

just out of interest, what condition are the plus in? are you burning it or is it weeping somewhere..?

I was once advised when looking at bikes, ignore the mileage, try and find out how it was used, there plenty of low mileage bikes out there that drink oil, the power rangers only bring them out on sunny Sundays, but for that one day they work hard.
likewise, I know off plenty of bikes with 60K plus that are running great and dont use a drop, and they are used.. Twisted Evil ..difference is there warmed up, ridden sympatherically when high revs arnt nessersary, and daft as it sounds warmed down, and obviously used regulary.

a bit of mechanical sympathy can go along way.
That said, I`am off to Snetteron Monday to ride the nuts off the Daytona... Laughing ...I will ride there and back slowly though.. Wink
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kungfupoodle
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by kungfupoodle on Sat 04 Jun 2011, 11:28 pm

[quote="hayden"]
@kungfupoodle wrote:.
Some people on other forums seem to think synthetic oils can leak pass seals more easily - quote]


I believe this is the case with air cooled engines, the guys on the `Boxertrix` ( BMW R11&12s models) website don`t go near fully synthetic, in fact many use `normal` mineral oil ie non synthetic, the thinking behind it is air cooled engines are not built to such fine tolerances, allowing for greater heat output etc.
Could be that an older high mileage bike ( or one thats had a hard life) may also benefit from this?

Yes that is the sort of argument that gets touted about.. but yet viscosity is determined by measuring the time taken for some oil to pass through a hole of a given size... so if a 30 weight oil is going to make it's way through some gap in an engine it will do so no matter what it is made of.

The fact than an air-cooled beemer 1100 puts out barely more power than a CB rather suggests there would be absolutely no benefit on running one on anything more exotic than the most basic mineral oil so it is a moot point really Smile

Sorry.. wildly off topic now!
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rossani
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by rossani on Sun 05 Jun 2011, 12:23 am

I don't do short runs - always 30 plus miles and often 100+, with mixed riding - some relaxed and some pushing on, with brisk overtaking in 4th up to around 9000 rpm... so the bike always gets fully warm. Fuel consumption is excellent - at least 200+ without getting on to reserve.

I think the comment 'see where it's going' is the right approach; it might just be leaking out during the journey and I haven't noticed... The iridium plugs are clean, it start's first push of the button, pulls cleanly and runs without problem, so I don't think there's a major issue, but I'll track it down, given the consensus that they generally don't use much oil.
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smokiewazhere
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by smokiewazhere on Sun 05 Jun 2011, 9:07 pm

just thought i would let you know that i use ordinary car oil 10w 40 and as cheap as possible i know i know a lot of people say it causes clutch slip ect ect but i have used this in the cb500 for 2 years now with out a problem and have used it in other smaller bikes i have had without any problems or using oil
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hayden
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by hayden on Mon 06 Jun 2011, 9:51 pm

@kungfupoodle wrote:

The fact than an air-cooled beemer 1100 puts out barely more power than a CB !


I hear what your saying Kungfu........in fairness to the Beemer, of which I admit I have fond memories, I dont think an extra 40bhp is barely more power.. Laughing

I was refering to these babies,
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bikereviews/searchresults/Bike-Reviews/BMW/BMW-R1100S-2000-2006/
one of which quite happily took fireblades apart around Donnington a little while back ( one of the most fun days I`ev ever had.. Laughing )........a much underated..if slightly `odd` machine, but allways superb to ride..its not the horsepower, its the torque.. Wink
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fruitbat3
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by fruitbat3 on Tue 07 Jun 2011, 10:26 am

Hi
The grade of oil you are using is wrong ,you should be using 10w40. We were told by honda , on honda courses not to use anything more than semi synthetic as you would have oil consumption problems and maybe clutch slipping. Any probs give us a ring at the shop (malvern)
fruitbat 3
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kungfupoodle
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by kungfupoodle on Tue 07 Jun 2011, 12:24 pm

@hayden wrote:
I hear what your saying Kungfu........in fairness to the Beemer, of which I admit I have fond memories, I dont think an extra 40bhp is barely more power.. Laughing


I was referring to the R1100 from the same era as my CB makes around 70 at the back wheel. It's definitely a lazy engine!

@fruitbat3 wrote:
The grade of oil you are using is wrong ,you should be using 10w40.

The owners handbook states 10w30.
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rossani
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by rossani on Tue 07 Jun 2011, 1:56 pm

Hey fruitbat, must drop in and see you again... Just realised I still have your spring puller (bloody thing took a piece out of my finger :-D)

I used 10W/30 as it's specified in Haynes manual (I don't have the original owners manual) and figured that using a good quality oil must be better than using something lesser. Never had any problem with clutch slippage, even two up pulling hard uphill.

Not disagreeing with anything you say, and you'd think the Honda guys ought to know best. Perhaps I'll give the 10W/40 a go when the 10W/30 runs out and see what difference it makes...

rossani

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dk5418
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by dk5418 on Mon 04 Jul 2011, 12:54 pm

Hi
I'am using Motul 300V 10W-40, the usage of the bike is mixed: city/ motorway, not revving it very much, no trackdays by far, the bike's having 30K miles on the clock and covered 3K miles yet keeping the top level....it is my first japanese vehicle and it is amazing for '95 product. CB is really a great machine. Regards, Denis. PS I only doubt the manual prescribing oil change once in 7,5K miles, it looks to me too optimistic for a 16 years old device.....
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oldenuff
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Changing the oil

Post by oldenuff on Mon 04 Jul 2011, 1:15 pm

The manual says every 4,000 miles but for many people that is more than a year's mileage so an annual change with a new filter is a good investment. I have moved to Halfords semi-synthetic and it seems fine with no oil usage. My CBS has 18,500 on the clock and spends most of its time in the Devon lanes where a straight mile of road is a novelty so the clutch gets a fair beating. This must make the oil work harder.
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rossani
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by rossani on Mon 04 Jul 2011, 8:57 pm

Changed to MOTUL 5100 10W/40 semi syn, so it'll be interesting see how it compares...
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theblackorder
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by theblackorder on Fri 22 Jun 2018, 9:04 am

Hey mate, I'm interested what did happen after you changed to semi-syntetic MOTUL 5100 10W40. This is the oil I used to ride with, but then last years changed to semi-syntetic 5100 10W50, this year full syntetic 7100 10W40 and now I'm losing oil. Used 5100 10W40 for at least 5 years and never had any oil consumption but this spring I drained out only 2 litres of 5100 10W50 (hope I haven't done any damage to the engine). So I decided to fill syntetic 7100 10W40 and it disappears quite fast - about 1.5 litres for 2.5k miles. My Honda never burned any oil so I was checking it a few times after pouring fresh oil in the spring and then forget about it. Looks like when I switched to 5100 10W50 I have lost 1 litre from summer to winter without noticing it... Crying or Very sad I checked for oil leaks around the front sprocket and the gear lever and it's okay. So if you can share what happened with your Honda lately I will be really thankful. I'm considering renewal of the valve stem seals now.
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rossani
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by rossani on Fri 22 Jun 2018, 10:11 am

Oil consumption went to negligible once I moved on to the Motul. A guy who new pretty much all there is to know about CB500s, told me they don't like fully synthetic. Maybe he was right, or maybe it's because the Motul is higher viscosity.
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burudis
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by burudis on Fri 22 Jun 2018, 9:50 pm

I would only worry if the spark plugs show signs of consumption in the cylinder.
Being Japanese motorcycle, only their successive owners are guilty of wear, maxime with the current oils.
I advise metal lube oil additive for many reasons.
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wornsprokets
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by wornsprokets on Sat 23 Jun 2018, 12:20 am

Ive a cb 500v with 53k...doesnt burn oil runs on halfords 10w/40 semi car oil(both cbs using same oil).... ive also have cb500sy...had 19k(now has 24) when i got it left up for years at least 7 not started... it burns oil (not huge amount but i do top it up once a month) it is also faster and better mpg than cb 500v
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eternally_troubled
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by eternally_troubled on Sat 23 Jun 2018, 11:42 am

I would stay with 10W40 (or 10W30) semi synthetic oil - I've had no problems. There isn't really any point in putting a fully-synthetic oil in a CB500 - the oil wasn't designed for engines like a CB500 and the CB500 wasn't designed for that kind of oil!
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theblackorder
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Re: Oil consumption

Post by theblackorder on Tue 26 Jun 2018, 8:17 am

Well I don't really know. The full synthetic should be the same as mineral (natural) just artificially produced (polymer chains or whatever), hence better endurance. But anyway I will switch back to semi 5100 10W40 when the current bottle is done. I predominantly ride with Shell 100 Octane Racing, the spark plugs don't show signs of oil burning - always brown-gray and dry. Yesterday when I took the carbs out for a cleaning, I inspected the cylinder head and the valves through the inlet manifold. The walls inside and the valve stems were slightly red. Motul 7100 synth is red but also shell's 100 gas is red. The bike starts fine, runs fine, doesn't smoke... I dunno what's happening, probably as you guys say it can't run on full synthetic, but 1L on 1500miles I think is a bit high.

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