Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle.

Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!!

avatar
BallisticBrian
Barry Sheene
Barry Sheene

Posts : 80

Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!! Empty Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!!

Post by BallisticBrian on Wed 12 Dec 2018, 5:00 pm

Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!!
Starts engine and keeps going with key out and kill switch off.

This happened before so I've searched through my posts to find what it was but can't find anything.


What I recall is that disconnecting the battery positive terminal and putting back on did not resolve.

Can anyone recall?

I know it seems odd I can't remember but since this happened I put the old solenoid back on because the cheap one from China developed a different issue even though new, plus I had a battery explode and literally crack down the middle causing multiple electrical damage especially to the immobiliser which had to be binned.

So all in all, I can't recall how I resolved that other problem. Any help appreciated.
avatar
BallisticBrian
Barry Sheene
Barry Sheene

Posts : 80

Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!! Empty Re: Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!!

Post by BallisticBrian on Wed 12 Dec 2018, 7:00 pm

OK, this is worse than I thought. The battery which is under a year old has boiled dry and was still warm after 2 hours in the cold.
This seems to be a repeat of what happened before when the battery fried and killed my immobiliser.

The regulator was already replaced after the last incident albeit with a third party one.

Something is either shorting out or over charging the battery and these other things such as stuck starter solenoids seem to be secondary to this.

But where do I start to look for what is causing this? The problem appears to be similar to one being discussed many years ago on this Ducati forum: https://www.speedzilla.com/forums/ducati-superbikes/2716-boiling-battery.html
but if anyone has any specific information to CB500s , rectifier problems or a short somewhere along the alternator wires causing issues and how to detect that would be useful?


Last edited by BallisticBrian on Wed 12 Dec 2018, 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : additional info)
avatar
BallisticBrian
Barry Sheene
Barry Sheene

Posts : 80

Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!! Empty Re: Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!!

Post by BallisticBrian on Thu 13 Dec 2018, 8:09 am

I wonder if anyone can help me urgently please? The battery was hot after 1 minute of cranking which completely discharged the battery, however I assumed when I opened it that it had "boiled" dry however, I am contradicted by the following web info, and am now unsure what to do, my plan was to top up and charge the battery to see if it holds charge first:

https://www.whitedogbikes.com/shop/content/11-motorcycle-battery-faqs/#emptybattery
"Maintenance free or sealed type batteries (which normally start with the code YTX, CTX or DTX, e.g. YTX9-BS) are known as 'dry cell' batteries (as opposed to older, conventional style batteries which are known as 'flooded cell' batteries).
The lead plates in maintenance free batteries absorb the battery acid/electrolyte so the acid doesn't have to initially cover the plates and won't be visible if the cap is removed from the battery.
If you remove the cap and you can see battery acid, this can mean the battery may have been overfilled (there's too much acid for the lead plates to absorb) or it can be an indication of a poor quality battery as cheaper batteries made from cheaper plate material don't absorb all the acid.
Please remember: If you remove the cap and don't see any electrolyte in the sealed type battery, this is completely normal so don't top the battery up with more acid as this can cause the battery to leak or fail!"
burudis
burudis
Barry Sheene
Barry Sheene

Posts : 82
Location : Torroto

Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!! Empty Re: Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!!

Post by burudis on Thu 13 Dec 2018, 7:14 pm

I have used JMT (german-china) lithium batteries and sealed acid  with only one  problem.
Japan good battery sealed boiled and exploded 20 years ago at M.Guzzi 1000SP due to regulator failure.
In my opinion the only cause is the voltage regulator =return to the original or best present shindengen triphasic but never china.
Or even worse, a fault or bad contact inside the alternator or failure in any of three phases.
Since at this level high knowledge and proper check material is required, I suggest going to a good electrical workshop or to an experienced dealer.
burudis
burudis
Barry Sheene
Barry Sheene

Posts : 82
Location : Torroto

Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!! Empty Re: Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!!

Post by burudis on Thu 13 Dec 2018, 7:33 pm

do not eat your head so much.
battery boiled for ampers excess received.
avatar
BallisticBrian
Barry Sheene
Barry Sheene

Posts : 80

Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!! Empty Re: Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!!

Post by BallisticBrian on Thu 13 Dec 2018, 8:52 pm

Ok thank you for your comment. I understand your first post but maybe not so much the second. I think my first step should be a slow trickle charge on the battery and test the charge after with a multimeter. (there is also a gauge on the charger so I should be able to see if it takes charge ok)
The thing is, maybe I just jumped to a conclusion that, when the starter solenoid failed by sticking on, that it was a reoccurrence of the big catastrophe that I had experienced, when maybe it is something, on one of the coldest days yet here in the UK, that happens because the battery is very low. Maybe.
Jameshambleton
Jameshambleton
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 2962
Location : Bedale, North Yorkshire

Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!! Empty Re: Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!!

Post by Jameshambleton on Fri 14 Dec 2018, 3:44 pm

Start with your solenoid and work your way back through the loom. With the right hand switchgear if the problem. Continues to for the easy route and replace your loom
avatar
BallisticBrian
Barry Sheene
Barry Sheene

Posts : 80

Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!! Empty Re: Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!!

Post by BallisticBrian on Fri 14 Dec 2018, 6:21 pm

I re sealed the dry cell battery and put it on a trickle charge for 5.5 hours (the label says 5 - 10 hours). It held the charge and seemed ok and cranked the bike fine. The solenoid wasn't stuck anymore.
I did a bit of digging online and one source states that an old solenoid can arc internally and stick when connected to a weak battery.

I wonder if the situation I had before with the solenoid sticking was not linked to the massive overload / immobiliser exploding and was just due to a weak battery old solenoid. I believe that was also in the cold of winter. Maybe I'm trying to connect all these things in my mind that aren't connected.

I do feel though I need to get tested to be sure all 3 phases of the alternator, and the earthing, other 3 connections of the rectifier.

I have here got the new Chinese solenoid I put on after the last "stick on" event. I took it off again when it just wouldn't operate at all and left me stranded on several occasions.
eternally_troubled
eternally_troubled
Admin
Admin

Awesome!
Posts : 3999
Location : 'ere be fens. (near Cambridge)

Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!! Empty Re: Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!!

Post by eternally_troubled on Sat 15 Dec 2018, 6:25 pm

Firstly:

Well, from a quick look a the wiring diagram, the fact that the starter was still running even when the kill switch was 'off' suggests that the solenoid must have been mechanically stuck in the 'on' (energised) position.

It sounds dumb, but when you've had this problem have you given the starter solenoid a good tap to try and unstick it?


Secondly:

When the starter is running there is really quite a large current flowing (certainly many 10s of amps) - this current is also flowing through the battery (and its resistance) and hence it will heat up.  If your starter solenoid gets stuck on the motor will be running for longer than normal and the battery will heat up quite a lot.  I don't know how much it will heat up, but it most certainly will heat up.


Personally I think it would be wise to buy a new, genuine starter solenoid (about £45 quid from david silver spares or similar places) rather than a dodgy knock-off one.  Also, if you the new, expensive one goes wrong quickly you have some recourse to the supplier (assuming they are a reputable, decent company).

If you can't afford a new one then at least try and buy a good second-hand one off ebay.


Also, would it be worth getting something like a battery isolator switch, so you can turn it off quick if it happens again:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Graceme-Battery-Disconnect-Switch-Motorbike/dp/B07F82N5YQ/ref=sr_1_12?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1544897833&sr=1-12&keywords=motorcycle+battery+switch

Not sure if this one would fit the CB500, but I bet one can be found.
motofan
motofan
Three's a Charm
Three's a Charm

Posts : 143
Location : Normandie, France

Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!! Empty Re: Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!!

Post by motofan on Tue 01 Jan 2019, 1:08 pm

Hi there Brian, I know I'm a bit late, you've probably sorted your problem already, if not, the sticky solenoid is something which I have experience of and is quite common on BMW Ks. They will stand lots of abuse and will start and run even when their battery is "past it" and the current being weak the starter solenoid contacts, the starter takes all the current, the solenoid opens, more current available the solenoid closes again and so on, making lots of sparks and heat in the solenoid contacts which eventually melt and weld together. The starter keeps turning then!
Your problem seems to me a discharged, weak battery which could be old battery or a charging problem, test the charging circuit and battery and change your starter solenoid, the contacts will be damaged more than likely.
HAPPY NEW YEAR! Very Happy

Sponsored content

Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!! Empty Re: Starter Motor stuck on AGAIN!!!

Post by Sponsored content


    Current date/time is Sat 20 Jul 2019, 10:15 am