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Ethanol fuels E10

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LI
Two Tone
Two Tone

Posts : 126
Location : North East

Ethanol fuels E10

Post by LI on Tue 28 Aug 2018, 12:57 pm

Hi y'all, it's been a while.  There are some articles in the news today about E10 fuel and how 600,000 cars aren't compatible. Just wondering if anyone has used 10% ethanol fuel in a CB? I think it's been available in the USA and some other places for a while.
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GollyGosh
Laser Shark
Laser Shark

Posts : 203
Location : Grimsby, Lincolnshire

Re: Ethanol fuels E10

Post by GollyGosh on Tue 28 Aug 2018, 2:51 pm

There is a BMF article Here

Short answer, avoid it like the plague.

Talking to a guy in the trade and a BMF member, it is believed that to meet quotas for renewable resources the oil industry is on occasion exceeding the 5% maximum of ethanol currently allowed. 

It's not just older vehicles, he knows of instances where ethanol has damaged new bikes, in particular those with plastic tanks.

He also advised draining the carbs when the bike is not in use to avoid corrosion and gumming up.
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Jameshambleton
Moderator
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Posts : 2843
Location : Bedale, North Yorkshire

Re: Ethanol fuels E10

Post by Jameshambleton on Tue 28 Aug 2018, 7:17 pm

ditto^
it's all over europe, a bloody nightmare, it'll strip the tank lining, wreck the seals in the fuel tap and the carbs as well as block the carbs up too.

sullivj
the 900
the 900

Posts : 2203
Location : Gatwick

Re: Ethanol fuels E10

Post by sullivj on Tue 28 Aug 2018, 10:24 pm

Is using the premium fuel (97) likely to be better?
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foolgene
Newbie
Newbie

Posts : 2

E-fuels.....rubbish

Post by foolgene on Wed 29 Aug 2018, 8:14 pm

Wotcher,

Keep it simple, avoid like the plague.


Short term use with regular 'proper' fuel refills and burns - not too much of an issue.
However, sitting static for days at a time, the science is.....

ethanol forms a binary solvent mixture in the tank.
ethanol is miscible (mixable) with any amount of water.
if you drink whisky (~60% water), wine (~86% water), or beer (~95% water), you'll know what I mean.
As the numbers work out, in a 15L tank filled with E10, the ethanol can support 60, 000ppm water, before it separates out.
(just accept that number it's a solvate/partition coefficient thing)
this means, the 1.5L of ethanol can have 60% water in it, i.e, 900mL of water.
So, this water will be corroding your tank, gumming air-jet emulsion tubes and generally creating high-polar havoc with seals designed for low-polar solvents (petrol).
Now, your fuel attendant who is selling you this stuff, says the ethanol is dry so quit your whinging.
This is true, however, what he doesn't tell you, is that the ethanol very quickly absorbs water from the air.
'But, there's no air in my tank when it's full'
Also true, however, as soon as any fuel is burnt, the tank backfills with ambient air, now correct me if I'm wrong, but it often rains in this country, so, you're pulling 'wet' air into the tank, where the ethanol happily grabs the water.
So, after a few re-fills, your 'dry' tank is no longer dry and all its metal components are in intimate contact with the rust weevil's friend, water.
You decide what this can do after a winter lay over (let alone the 4 years my CB500 stood before I bought it, there is another story there...)


Science never sleeps
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GollyGosh
Laser Shark
Laser Shark

Posts : 203
Location : Grimsby, Lincolnshire

Re: Ethanol fuels E10

Post by GollyGosh on Wed 29 Aug 2018, 9:02 pm

Regarding premium fuels, from what I understand, that was mostly true a few years ago depending on the area of the country. Ethanol is now at all tanker depots in all areas and is present in premium fuels.

Although there is a legal requirement to add ethanol to 95RON there is no requirement add it to premium petrols.  That said, the petroleum industry say they are under pressure to meet the Government's Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation and as such are having to add it to the premium fuels to meet quota's.


That's their excuse whilst a cynic might say ethanol is cheaper so adding it increases their profits.

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