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Chain riveting question

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louis_sutton
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Chain riveting question

Post by louis_sutton on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 10:44 pm

hi all,
I've just fitted a new chain and sprockets to my CB.  All went on fine - but the measurements in the Haynes state that the diameter of the newly staked ends should be 5.5-5.8mm.  My riveting pin now fits nicely in the staked ends - but the diameter is less than that.  Have I missed something?

Cheers
Louis
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jonny10
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by jonny10 on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 12:11 am

Didn't know of that Haynes recommendation but 5mm+ seems a lot to me.
The head of the riveting pin is designed to flare the end of the rivet sufficiently to give it a good hold. Always worked for me anyway.
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louis_sutton
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by louis_sutton on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:49 am

Thanks mate. It all fit nicely, but when I read that it seemed a touch off from the 5.3mm that it's ended up!
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Fair Weather Rider
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by Fair Weather Rider on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:59 am

I'm afraid I don't trust those rivet links, I prefer the split link, with circlip.
Call me old fashioned.......... scratch
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skyrider
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by skyrider on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 12:10 pm

im with you on that one fair weather I would sooner have a split link as well, suddenly they are seemingly not as safe on a bike over a certain size but I still think its fashion to have a rivet chain and fashion seems to call the shots these days and anyway split link chains are easier to change all you need is a pair of pliers
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Fair Weather Rider
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by Fair Weather Rider on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 2:11 pm

@skyrider wrote:im with you on that one fair weather I would sooner have a split link as well, suddenly they are seemingly not as safe on a bike over a certain size but I still think its fashion to have a rivet chain and fashion seems to call the shots these days and anyway split link chains are easier to change all you need is a pair of pliers

So much easier, I'm sure Agostini and Hailwood used split links.
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louis_sutton
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by louis_sutton on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 4:47 pm

I'll admit I've never used a split link. This one went on ok, just need to reassure myself that it's sufficiently flared. Presumably there should be little sideways force on it anyway.
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davecb5002
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by davecb5002 on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 5:04 pm

@Fair Weather Rider wrote:






So much easier, I'm sure Agostini and Hailwood used split links.



Whilst it is true, Agostini and Hailwood used split link chains. But in the 1967 IOM TT Senior race which was a world championship race .in those days
Agostini was leading by 2 seconds from Hailwood on lap 5 of 6 and after over 200 miles of racing ,
when Agostini suffered a broken chain on the mountain section and Hailwood won. I was there.
I remember reading afterwards that Agostini chain failure was at the split link
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Fair Weather Rider
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by Fair Weather Rider on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 7:04 pm

Point taken Dave, but they were riding a lot harder than us and a few more cc's Laughing
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skyrider
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by skyrider on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 7:13 pm

and I have rode thousands of miles with split link chains without any problems
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Jameshambleton
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by Jameshambleton on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 7:43 pm

I also use a soft rivet same as yourself, I just apply pressure until the ball riveting thingy and just apply more and more pressure until the ball fully fits within the recess
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louis_sutton
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by louis_sutton on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:31 pm

Cheers James. I hope I'm just being neurotic!
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Jameshambleton
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by Jameshambleton on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 9:21 am

Id also like to add that different chains use different diameter rivets. Did chains use a different size rivet to cz chains for example, making the flange over amount different, not to mention the data in the Haynes for chains will be likely to be outdated depending on the design.

The Haynes might be talking about a hard rivet and not a soft one
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street_moto
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by street_moto on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 9:24 am

My 2p worth is, given the amount of pressure required just to get the plate on over the unflared rivet, then any flaring is going to stop the plate coming off. Plus as has been mentioned, no force in that direction anyway.
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louis_sutton
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by louis_sutton on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 10:59 am

Thanks all. Generally I'm not satisfied with the chain tool I bought so am going to try a new one to be certain. Nice to learn how to do something new though.
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geoffnorfolk
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by geoffnorfolk on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 4:49 pm

Years ago, on my old CB750, these "soft links" had just come in..... I'd always used the split links before.   In my ignorance, all I did was use a pair of molegrips to press the side plate on and never flared an end over. The chain stayed intact with no problems.
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tt fan
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by tt fan on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 6:17 pm

I'm sure i found it thanks to this site, but delboys garage bandit fighter build part 3 on youtube shows a cheap and simple way to fit these soft links. Worth a look if you are at all worried.
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davecb5002
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by davecb5002 on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 8:10 pm

I also recently fitted a new chain and sprockets. I used a DID chain cut and rivet tool, that I bought a few years ago at the NEC bike show on special offer. The removal pin broke the second time I used it, so just grind end of now. Using the tool finished size on soft link was 5.6. Seems O.K

Not sure what to do about lubing the new one, being a fan of sae90 gear in the past. A mate bought me some Wurth Dry chain lube for Xmas. He swears buy it. Has anybody used this on a regular basis.
Any comments Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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louis_sutton
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by louis_sutton on Wed 14 Feb 2018, 12:18 am

What tool was it Dave?

I'm not comfortable leaving mine so un-flared so I'll post the next tool set if it's any good.

I've used the wurth stuff, it's ok. I don't really have a favourite lube, as long as it's not the cheap rubbish graphite ones off the bay. The wd40 one isn't bad
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Fair Weather Rider
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by Fair Weather Rider on Wed 14 Feb 2018, 10:30 am

I use Silkolene pro chain made by Fuchs, nice and sticky give a good protective coat Very Happy
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davecb5002
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by davecb5002 on Wed 14 Feb 2018, 11:52 am

The tool I used is a genuine DID breaker and riviter, comes in a posh blue metal box, had it a few years now and it has probably done 20 chains, not all mine. Mates scroung it to use.
Think the genuine DID ones are loads of money now about £70. They advertise some on fleabay,that say DID style, look the same but do not know about quality,worth a try
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jonny10
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by jonny10 on Wed 14 Feb 2018, 11:40 pm

Whatever kit you use, even the expensive ones, it's really easy to bend/break the pin when pressing out the old rivet. That's why I never use the tool for beaking the chain - just cut the chain off with a grinder and be done with it.
Really, all that any of the kits are good for IMHO, is pressing on the plates and flaring the rivet ends. A cheapo tool will do that just a well as the dear ones.
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louis_sutton
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by louis_sutton on Sun 18 Feb 2018, 11:07 pm

Well, all finished now.

This failed (but the one I got wasn't from M&P, it's possible their quality is better)

https://www.mandp.co.uk/jt-chain-breaker-riveting-tool.html

This worked much better
https://www.mandp.co.uk/jt-pro-chain-tool-kit.html

Next time I'm just going to cut through the chain with an angle grinder - I agree with you Jonny.  The first tool I tried wouldn't even flare it properly.
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stormbringer
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by stormbringer on Sun 18 Feb 2018, 11:42 pm

@louis_sutton wrote:This failed (but the one I got wasn't from M&P, it's possible their quality is better)

https://www.mandp.co.uk/jt-chain-breaker-riveting-tool.html

I'm using that kit and have had no issues.

It so happens I've just replaced the chain kit. Looking up the flaring diameter on DID's website told me it's supposed to be 5.5-5.8mm. And so I made it 5.6mm.

Old chain kit (a DID 525VX on JT sprockets) was retired after 60.000 km of troublefree service.

Someone asked about using gear oil for the chain. I can vouch for that; my Loobman fully-manual chain oiler holds 75W/90 Smile
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skyerae
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Re: Chain riveting question

Post by skyerae on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 5:56 am

I angle grind the chain off and use my DID chain riverter to flare the rivet ends. The DID chain riverter was expensive (about £110) but will pay for itself after a few uses and happy to lend it out to friends, one of whom has borrowed my angle grinder and riverter just this weekend to replace his chain. It doesn't come in a posh blue metal box anymore  Sad but a serviceable plastic box instead, with a DID sticker on the lid.

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