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Bike off the road, electrical fault?

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BallisticBrian
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Bike off the road, electrical fault?

Post by BallisticBrian on Mon 16 Oct 2017, 8:35 pm

Hi guys,

Broke down on the motorway yesterday. The battery ran dry which I believed was maintenance free. (has DO NOT OPEN written across the top).

Anyway, it was dry and my bike died while go along at about 70mph. The rev gauge went to zero, a couple of mis-fires, I tried to bump it and it started and went for another half mile. Then it mis-fired and dead for good. Won't start.

When the RAC came out, he replaced the battery acid, and we noticed there was no longer any beep sound when you touch the immobiliser with the datatool key.

Anyway, just to complicate things, I have an age old problem where  you have to kick the side stand to start the bike, but besides this, it won't start.

I got towed after this.
I know the next step is I need to get the spark plug out and check it is sparking, but does anyone have experience of a dry battery and know what kind of likely components can get damaged by over charging when this happens?

I already replaced the regulator a couple of months ago in an attempt to fix the kicking the bike thing. 

Any help appreciated.

P.S. about the immobiliser, the LED on the back is still working and making all the correct colour changes when you press it, just the audio signal has gone. I know it would be nice to pull the immobiliser, but it was done extremely well and the loom is tight with no room to work on it and no clue which wire is which. It would be a major job for me to remove it and probably risk causing problems with the loom.
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wornsprokets
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Re: Bike off the road, electrical fault?

Post by wornsprokets on Mon 16 Oct 2017, 8:51 pm

It could be the side stand switch....by sounds of it.... or datatool alarm....i by passed mine in my fireblade
Could be a faulty stator too...these things need to be tested....first

BallisticBrian
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Re: Bike off the road, electrical fault?

Post by BallisticBrian on Mon 16 Oct 2017, 9:04 pm

Hi there, my side stand switch is disconnected, however wacking the side stand was necessary to start the bike before this break down. Maybe I'm just muddying the water of this break down problem. Maybe I have more than one problem at a time...
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wornsprokets
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Re: Bike off the road, electrical fault?

Post by wornsprokets on Mon 16 Oct 2017, 9:16 pm

I changed my stator wkd as it wasnt fully working causing battery to go flat...it sound like side stand fault....my datatool s3 or s4 alarm left me stranded on my old  96 fireblade as it was at least 15yrs old or more...so i by passed it too
 Could water be getting into by passed wires
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Beresford
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Re: Bike off the road, electrical fault?

Post by Beresford on Mon 16 Oct 2017, 10:00 pm

When a battery dries out, it is usually a sign that it is being overcharged / overheating. That's normally a sign that the reg/rec is malfunctioning. This can also cause the stator to overheat and melt its internal insulation and burn out.

BallisticBrian
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Re: Bike off the road, electrical fault?

Post by BallisticBrian on Mon 16 Oct 2017, 10:18 pm

Is it the stator that generates the voltage for the spark?
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Jameshambleton
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Re: Bike off the road, electrical fault?

Post by Jameshambleton on Mon 16 Oct 2017, 10:34 pm

No the power for the spark comes from the voltage, the spark itself is controlled using the ecu and a switched earth system
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eternally_troubled
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Re: Bike off the road, electrical fault?

Post by eternally_troubled on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 11:03 pm

Sounds annoying.

After the RAC man put some acid back into the battery, have you tried to charge it up off the bike? Measured the voltage with a meter? If you are really lucky it will recover (a bit) after a good charge. I fear, given it was dried out, it may be knackered, so a new battery might be required.

The other option is to remove the suspect battery and replace it with a known good battery from the car (or another bike) - if the new battery won't fit in the battery compartment you will need to use some jump leads to connect it up. Obviously you can't ride off like this, but it will tell you if it is the battery which is at fault. Also be a bit careful to get the correct polarity and not to short out the leads.

BallisticBrian
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Re: Bike off the road, electrical fault?

Post by BallisticBrian on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 7:53 am

The acid the RAC man put in was only used acid from a knackered battery but after charging it with his high power charger it only turned the engine over for 30 seconds before dying.
Thing is even this should have created a spark and started the engine up shouldn't it.?
Anyway, I think I may have to call in the experts as I have so little time to look at it and need it back on the road desperately.
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eternally_troubled
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Re: Bike off the road, electrical fault?

Post by eternally_troubled on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 10:04 pm

@BallisticBrian wrote:The acid the RAC man put in was only used acid from a knackered battery but after charging it with his high power charger it only turned the engine over for 30 seconds before dying.
Thing is even this should have created a spark and started the engine up shouldn't it.?
Anyway, I think I may have to call in the experts as I have so little time to look at it and need it back on the road desperately.


Definately put the battery on charge off the bike (if you can).  However I suspect you are out of luck and will have to buy a new battery.

Lead-acid batteries are not really meant to dry out... guess how I know!

It *is* possible to damage other parts of the electrical system if the regulator dies and the voltage across the battery (and in the rest of the system) rises, but normally they are OK - the rest of my bike was fine after a similar thing happened to me, but, of course, you may be out of luck.

You are certainly going along the right lines checking for spark - if the ECU/ignitor/electronic ignition box shagged then you won't get one. I suspect the datatool is OK if its LED does the right things, but, as with all alarms, I wouldn't trust it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZInZHzSz8Y
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geoffnorfolk
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Re: Bike off the road, electrical fault?

Post by geoffnorfolk on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 10:21 pm

As others have said, the battery has had it in you might as well chuck it.  Buy a new one, connect it up, start the bike with a voltmeter across the terminals...... you can pick up a cheap multimeter for less  than £20. You'll  then be able to find out what's going on.  The voltage should read about 14.5 volts max................. any more and its almost certainly the reg/rect faulty.  Did you buy a genuine one or a £20 one off Ebay? The cheap ones do sometimes have problems.

BallisticBrian
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Re: Bike off the road, electrical fault?

Post by BallisticBrian on Tue 24 Oct 2017, 10:32 am

The battery did indeed run dry and the datatool immobiliser had gone bang and disabled the bike on more than one circuit. The bike is running but the regulator seems to be sending too many volts to the battery and my mechanic wants to check both the regulator and the generator. It's been a nightmare tracking the wiring down and now he can't seem to get any reading at all off the generator.

It was a cheap Chinese regulator (£10) but what you must understand is I only put that one on when the previous new battery wasn't charging / holding charge, so even if the regulator screwed up everything, there was something before that underlying the situation.
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teamster1975
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Re: Bike off the road, electrical fault?

Post by teamster1975 on Tue 24 Oct 2017, 5:26 pm

Get your battery sorted for starters, you will then probably have to "despike" the Datatool control unit.
Despike instructions
I went through this on my mate's Daytona, he had the Datatool Evo.

This video made me laugh Razz


BallisticBrian
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Re: Bike off the road, electrical fault?

Post by BallisticBrian on Tue 24 Oct 2017, 9:34 pm

Had to watch it a couple of times just to make sure I've got all the right instructions and technique... Yes that little box has cost me £88 to get towed £15 in phone calls to a premium number and £160 in labour so far, not including a new battery.
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wornsprokets
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Re: Bike off the road, electrical fault?

Post by wornsprokets on Tue 24 Oct 2017, 11:12 pm

U can by pass datatool s3 alarm  very easy saw it on line somewhere....i did it on my fireblade.... still connected in loom has no affect on bike now.... it stoped it twice plus failed regulator rectifier...also which is same as cb's

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