Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle.

Fork Seal

Share
avatar
Grarea
Laser Shark
Laser Shark

Posts : 192
Location : Cornwall

Fork Seal

Post by Grarea on Thu 11 May 2017, 8:39 pm

Bugger, a fork seal has just gone today.
There was no suggestion before and it is running down now.
Fortunately it isn't brake disc side.

Can I be lazy and just quickly ask if this is an easy fix or more involved?
As in do i need tools and stuff?

I suppose I am asking two questions.
1) Is there an easy saturday afternoon fix as I need it most days? (Also, I am skint, so something involving gaffer tape sounds good)
2) Is there a list of things I should do as they are off anyway?

I really like the idea of 2) and do it properly and thoroughly, I am just wondering if I have the time and the money right now.
avatar
Jameshambleton
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 1809
Location : Bedale, North Yorkshire

Re: Fork Seal

Post by Jameshambleton on Thu 11 May 2017, 8:57 pm

Grarea wrote:Bugger, a fork seal has just gone today.
There was no suggestion before and it is running down now.
Fortunately it isn't brake disc side.

Can I be lazy and just quickly ask if this is an easy fix or more involved?
As in do i need tools and stuff?

I suppose I am asking two questions.
1) Is there an easy saturday afternoon fix as I need it most days? (Also, I am skint, so something involving gaffer tape sounds good)
2) Is there a list of things I should do as they are off anyway?

I really like the idea of 2) and do it properly and thoroughly, I am just wondering if I have the time and the money right now.



Do what the garage did to the previous owner of my superfour did, stuff kitchen roll between the seal and the dust cover. 

I use a Sealy MS016 seal driver when I'm rebuilding forks, it's quite an expensive tool but I suppose it depends on how much you'll use it to see if it's worth it.
avatar
ceejay
the 800
the 800

Posts : 262
Location : Bournemouth

Re: Fork Seal

Post by ceejay on Thu 11 May 2017, 11:31 pm

If you want a temp fix I've had success with this except I was away at the time so made one by cutting that rough shape out of a plastic coke bottle. You basically try to remove any grit between seal and fork leg.

Might not work if it is severe but definitely worth a go given the effort and cost involved!
avatar
Grarea
Laser Shark
Laser Shark

Posts : 192
Location : Cornwall

Re: Fork Seal

Post by Grarea on Fri 12 May 2017, 6:10 am

Cheers guys.
With James telling me I need a tool made me think it isn't a five minute job.
So, I watched this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrmYJgcGX30&t=6s
It needs some planning and some time doesn't it?

Cheers ceejay, I might try that, but there is quite a lot coming out.
You could see it flowing down the legs, it was dripping onto the floor.
avatar
Jameshambleton
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 1809
Location : Bedale, North Yorkshire

Re: Fork Seal

Post by Jameshambleton on Fri 12 May 2017, 6:33 am

Grarea wrote:Cheers guys.
With James telling me I need a tool made me think it isn't a five minute job.
So, I watched this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrmYJgcGX30&t=6s
It needs some planning and some time doesn't it?

Cheers ceejay, I might try that, but there is quite a lot coming out.
You could see it flowing down the legs, it was dripping onto the floor.

I was going to try that but in the end I decided on getting that proper tool instead. Rebuilding for forks including replacing the oil took me about an hour and a half on my first attempt, but I've got it down to about 45mins now. 

Tips are to undo the damper-rod bolt in the bottom of the fork leg and to crack free the top cap nut at the top of the forks, then loosen the bolts in the yokes.
avatar
Melitos
Godly
Godly

Posts : 63
Location : Vaasa

Re: Fork Seal

Post by Melitos on Fri 12 May 2017, 8:34 pm

Hi

You might want to replace the fork bushings also if you change the seals. Part 8 & 9  https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb500-1994-r-germanykph-27p_model1513/partslist/F__0800.html

You will probably need long(-ish) allen key socket for ½" ratchet to undo the damper bolt at bottom of the fork. I think 7mm is the correct size but it might have been 6 also... At least the bolts on my forks were quite tough to undo and I was not able to open them with the common L-shape allen key.

You can use your old bushings and seals for installing the new ones.

Some links for advice:
http://www.nobugs.org/bike/forkseal.html
http://www.nobugs.org/bike/forksealpics/index.html

http://www.cb500club.net/t5084-50k-km-overhaul-and-winter-upgrades#48210

BR,
Antti
avatar
Grarea
Laser Shark
Laser Shark

Posts : 192
Location : Cornwall

Re: Fork Seal

Post by Grarea on Sat 13 May 2017, 11:50 am

Great stuff, thanks guys.
So, the tough bit is removing the old one.
The water technique looks like a giggle.

I shall do what delboy suggests to protect the seals as I put them on, as there is a fair bit of pitting.

So, I need Lings for the original parts:
Seals.
Bushes. Might as well do the bushes while I am there. I doubt they have been done ever.
Fork protectors / gaiters sound like a good idea. Any particular thoughts on those?
New dust covers.
Fork oil of a debated weight. Is there a better weight? Or is it personal preference? Is one make better than another?
Either a 6 or 7mm long allen key bit.

Anything I should be doing / looking at while I have them apart?
avatar
hh_12345
Silver Bullet
Silver Bullet

Posts : 107

Re: Fork Seal

Post by hh_12345 on Sat 13 May 2017, 9:00 pm

It is a good idea to put gaitors on, I bought a pair, but they didn't fit and I did not bother any more with it. There are many available, but none that I am sure will fit and also look good.

10 wt oil is recommended in the Haynes manual and I think it is just fine, I am using motorex.

Not sure, but the allen key was 6mm - it is  good to go with a quality one that will not round the head of the bolt.

I considered changing the bushings on mine, but they appeared to be in a good state, so probably it's best to open the fork and order new ones only if needed. 

Tubes on my fork have some pitting and I wasted considerable amount of time trying to fill and polish them with some kind of liquid metal. The result is not really satisfactory, a little bit better than before, but the pitting is still there.

Be prepared for driving in the new seals and bushings in proper and patient way, I was not, and almost damaged the oil seals beyond repair. A seal driver or a piece of wood with a hole in it as recommended in the forum would work well.

The topic on replacing the seals in the forum is really useful:
http://www.cb500club.net/t2831-fork-seal-replacement-how-to
avatar
Grarea
Laser Shark
Laser Shark

Posts : 192
Location : Cornwall

Re: Fork Seal

Post by Grarea on Sat 13 May 2017, 9:15 pm

Thanks for that. Good and welcome advice.
I was planning to get everything ready and do it all in one go so I wasn't without the bike.
It is my only means of motorised transport.
But having put the bushes and seals into lings basket, it comes to nearly £100, so I might have a rethink.

Delboy suggests using plastic from a milk bottle to slide the seals over the pitting, so will try that.
avatar
Jameshambleton
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 1809
Location : Bedale, North Yorkshire

Re: Fork Seal

Post by Jameshambleton on Sat 13 May 2017, 10:35 pm

We was talking about forks today at work and apparently 600 grit wet and dry covered in oil works really well on your stanchions for removing the peaks of the rust, that cause the seals to fail.
avatar
Drago76
Squiddy
Squiddy

Posts : 18
Location : Riga,Latvia

Re: Fork Seal

Post by Drago76 on Sun 14 May 2017, 8:08 pm

do anyone here is trying to drill bottom of fork leg ( there is place for it) and make a thread, and put the bolt there for possibility to change for oil without disassembling forks?
on my xj600 yamaha there is oil draining bolts ( m3.5 or m4) from factory.
i read, cb500 also in some models have a draining bolt, on some - not. 
on mine there is a place, where drain bolt must be, but it not placed there.
thinking about bore hole there, make a m4 thread, and put screw in it. then i can change fork oil without big problems, who is a good thing, i suppose....?
avatar
Jameshambleton
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 1809
Location : Bedale, North Yorkshire

Re: Fork Seal

Post by Jameshambleton on Sun 14 May 2017, 8:43 pm

Drago76 wrote:i read, cb500 also in some models have a draining bolt, on some - not. 
on mine there is a place, where drain bolt must be, but it not placed there.
thinking about bore hole there, make a m4 thread, and put screw in it. then i can change fork oil without big problems, who is a good thing, i suppose....?

Correct 96 onwards have the bolt blanked off. 
As for boring the hole, I don't really see the point as, you still need to take the top cap off anyway for refilling and for measuring the air gap. It has been done before by someone on this very forum but I've not got a clue who.
avatar
Drago76
Squiddy
Squiddy

Posts : 18
Location : Riga,Latvia

Re: Fork Seal

Post by Drago76 on Mon 15 May 2017, 7:45 am

Jameshambleton wrote:

Drago76 wrote:i read, cb500 also in some models have a draining bolt, on some - not. 
on mine there is a place, where drain bolt must be, but it not placed there.
thinking about bore hole there, make a m4 thread, and put screw in it. then i can change fork oil without big problems, who is a good thing, i suppose....?



Correct 96 onwards have the bolt blanked off. 
As for boring the hole, I don't really see the point as, you still need to take the top cap off anyway for refilling and for measuring the air gap. It has been done before by someone on this very forum but I've not got a clue who.

top cap can be taken off without any additional parts removing / disassembling, isnt?
on xj600 thats it.

then point is in you easily can top fluid, and change very easy.
if your fork seals is in good condition, there is not need to remove fork legs.
in the same time, hydraulic fluid is good to change time from time.
in any way, after a xj600, i want to drain bolts on front forks.
after i changed fluid on it ( to standart grade 10w repsol fork fluid) front was considerably better, yet i first too think about more viscosity for better damping and so on.
that fluid, who i drain from it was completely black, and thick...
avatar
Grarea
Laser Shark
Laser Shark

Posts : 192
Location : Cornwall

Re: Fork Seal

Post by Grarea on Mon 15 May 2017, 10:37 am

I was going to get all original parts from Lings, but it is looking a bit pricey.
I was just going to replace the bushes anyway while I have the forks apart.

I like the idea of original parts for the fork seals for sure, but I am wondering about the bushes.
What do you reckon to these? Is it something I shouldn't buy cheap?
Wemoto 
http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/honda/cb_500_sw_sx/98-99/picture/fork_bush_kit_-_slinky_glide/

Options are £40 original, £30 at silvers and 19 at wemoto
Actually, what about pyramid parts?

Is it easy to tell if bushes have had it? I am debating whether to just change them anyway or wait until I have it apart.

Actually, if i just try and use the bushes against each other to pull the thing apart, that will surely damage the bushes, right?
avatar
Grarea
Laser Shark
Laser Shark

Posts : 192
Location : Cornwall

Re: Fork Seal

Post by Grarea on Wed 17 May 2017, 9:57 am

Just bumping this to see if anyone has any thoughts on the above please?
Thanks.

Edit: I decided I can't be without the bike for longer than is necessary, so ordered new bushes.
Will replace them anyway.
Going by everything else on the bike it is HIGHLY unlikely that they will ever have been replaced before.
avatar
Grarea
Laser Shark
Laser Shark

Posts : 192
Location : Cornwall

Re: Fork Seal

Post by Grarea on Sat 20 May 2017, 12:45 pm

Thanks for the tips guys.
All done and dusted.

Boy the stuff i put in was a very different colour to what came out.

It handles somewhat differently now as well.
Very Happy
avatar
eternally_troubled
Admin
Admin

Awesome!
Posts : 3656
Location : 'ere be fens. (near Cambridge)

Re: Fork Seal

Post by eternally_troubled on Sat 20 May 2017, 5:37 pm

Glad to hear it is better now. I know mine was certainly better once I'd done the same thing.

I was going to say you should replace the bushes anyway, so I'm pretty sure you did the right thing.
avatar
Grarea
Laser Shark
Laser Shark

Posts : 192
Location : Cornwall

Re: Fork Seal

Post by Grarea on Sat 20 May 2017, 6:22 pm

Yes, pretty pleased with it actually.
I didn't realise it could handle better than it was.
A very pleasant surprise.

These videos came in very handy as well as the links further up in this thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrmYJgcGX30&t=1316s
I liked the bit about using the milk bottle to get the seals over any pitting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw8bFikuDQg&t=317s
avatar
teamster1975
Admin
Admin

Posts : 2457
Location : Woking, Surrey

Re: Fork Seal

Post by teamster1975 on Sun 21 May 2017, 10:07 am

If you haven't done so already, get yourself some fork protectors, something like these.
They just attach with a couple of cable ties and protect the fork travel area on the stanchions.
avatar
Grarea
Laser Shark
Laser Shark

Posts : 192
Location : Cornwall

Re: Fork Seal

Post by Grarea on Sun 21 May 2017, 11:57 am

Yes, it is on the list.
Are those ones the correct size do you know?
avatar
teamster1975
Admin
Admin

Posts : 2457
Location : Woking, Surrey

Re: Fork Seal

Post by teamster1975 on Sun 21 May 2017, 1:40 pm

I couldn't tell you definitively as I don't have my bike here at the moment, but they are a universal fit ie they open up and tighten with the cable ties.
avatar
Grarea
Laser Shark
Laser Shark

Posts : 192
Location : Cornwall

Re: Fork Seal

Post by Grarea on Thu 25 May 2017, 3:09 pm

I just have to say again.
I have quite a grin on my face.
This has made quite a difference to the handling of the bike.

I didn't notice before, but when i going round the same corners as before, I have so much more control.
It just kind of goes where I want it to.
It must have been pretty vague before.

I assumed it was me being fairly new back to the bikes.
Slowly gaining confidence, but this has made plenty of difference.

Since i got it last august or september (I think) I have changed the steering bearings (it was an advisory on the previous mot and got much worse) and the fork seals (well, among other things). It is quite the different bike. This has subsequently improved my riding  Very Happy.

Happy bunny.
avatar
eternally_troubled
Admin
Admin

Awesome!
Posts : 3656
Location : 'ere be fens. (near Cambridge)

Re: Fork Seal

Post by eternally_troubled on Mon 29 May 2017, 8:38 pm

Grarea wrote:I just have to say again.
I have quite a grin on my face.
This has made quite a difference to the handling of the bike.

I didn't notice before, but when i going round the same corners as before, I have so much more control.
It just kind of goes where I want it to.
It must have been pretty vague before.

I assumed it was me being fairly new back to the bikes.
Slowly gaining confidence, but this has made plenty of difference.

Since i got it last august or september (I think) I have changed the steering bearings (it was an advisory on the previous mot and got much worse) and the fork seals (well, among other things). It is quite the different bike. This has subsequently improved my riding  :D.

Happy bunny.

Yeah, it can make quite a difference - TBH just changing the fork oil can make the handling better if it's been neglected for a few years. New fork oil and fresh tyres can make a crap bike into an almost good one... :)

Sponsored content

Re: Fork Seal

Post by Sponsored content


    Current date/time is Thu 21 Sep 2017, 4:41 pm