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2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

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twohoots
Squiddy
Squiddy

Posts : 11
Location : Eastbourne

2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

Post by twohoots on Tue 02 May 2017, 5:55 pm

Problem
So,having picked up the bike in January(Retirement project, and rider) ,having bought it back from the guy I sold it to in 2013,I embarked on a major winter check/refresh.


Front shocks stripped and rebuilt with new parts as required,swinging arm out and bearings checked and greased,all systems checked,cleaned and new parts as required,carbs,valve clearances ,electrics etc.
Also Steering bearings stripped ,cleaned and greased,bearings/races pristine and only needed grease and careful adjustment.


That's when the problem started,managed to strip the steering stem thread when initially tightening
the nut!!! never got as far as using one of my torque wrenches,sheer ham fistedness on my part,shouldn't have happened as experienced Aircraft Fitter for 50+ yrs, on and off .


Managed to secure a good replacement off fleabay complete with lower race attached and bearings,
So using existing bearings /races which are already on the bike,along with new (used) stem and lower race (which on careful inspection appears perfect with no marks or ,discoloration)I was able to adjust to a light loading,no play and free movement-Success or so I thought.


Reassembled the bike, she started easily and she's perfect,just as I remember,


However on riding,there's a knock that appears to come from the top/front of the bike when going over bumps in the road,Very annoying and definitely not as I remember.


Had it apart again ,checked everything,i.e.forks,caliper,steering and all fasteners,no problems found.
Re assembled and knock still there,I know that noises can travel so checked everything else,nothing.


However,took fairing off and rode bike without and what do you know,couldn't hear a knock,wondering if the wind was taking the noise away?


Have checked fairing mountings and anything that could be making the noise,zilch.


So stuffed for now


Only thing I can think is that it its down to a mismatch between the lower race on steering stem and the original bearing,though have compared them and checked fit and it seems fine,also bearings adjust and operate well.


I know you should always replace bearings/races as sets but was hoping to avoid problem of changing complete bearing sets ,but this may be my only option now as I cannot find anything else that would cause the knock in the steering over bumps. conccensus please re. mixing bearings /races please!


Bye the way I believe the struts are fine,bearings were unmarked so re-used with new seals and dust caps,correct weight (10w) of fork all and correct qty I.e 320 cc (150 mm measured from top of collapsed strut)


Any advise on anything I may have done wrong or other areas to look much appreciated. Sorry for long rambling post but at least you have all the facts!
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wornsprokets
the 900
the 900

Posts : 1200
Location : dublin

Re: 2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

Post by wornsprokets on Tue 02 May 2017, 7:23 pm

Could bushings in fork legs need replacing.... ive a cb500v and sy cb500's and fairing does vibrate a bit on that . On cb 500v  there a click some times as i brake...it not head race bearings or forks.... i think its front brake.... but its only now & then not all time a click
I think it mite worn caliper pin
That holds brake pad in
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twohoots
Squiddy
Squiddy

Posts : 11
Location : Eastbourne

Re: 2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

Post by twohoots on Tue 02 May 2017, 8:20 pm

Thanks for quick reply,re the fork bushings,I examined both upper and lower ones carefully when I stripped struts recently,they seem fine,teflon on the wear surface is as new and unmarked (I think they may have been replaced last year by previous owner)

Re your click ,I have seen other posts about a click when braking and (as you say)thought to be the retaining pin or the sliders on the calipers not being free.so I think you may be on the right track.

My "knock" or "bump"only occurs when going over undulations(potholes/ripples)in the road,not under braking.
Thanks for your comments
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Beresford
the 900
the 900

Posts : 1424
Location : not that far from Kirkistown

Re: 2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

Post by Beresford on Tue 02 May 2017, 10:46 pm

I know that this is unlikely, but has either of the fork springs settled so that there is a small amount of free movement of the spring if the suspension has bottomed out over a bump or ripple?
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twohoots
Squiddy
Squiddy

Posts : 11
Location : Eastbourne

Re: 2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

Post by twohoots on Wed 03 May 2017, 8:23 am

Thanks for reply mate,I don't believe forks are bottoming out either on compression or rebound on the kind of bumps that are causing the noise,I Also don't think there is room for the springs to be other than correctly fitted,the amount of compression on the top nuts was equal for both,thanks for suggestion anyway will give it thought.
Cheers
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twohoots
Squiddy
Squiddy

Posts : 11
Location : Eastbourne

Re: 2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

Post by twohoots on Wed 03 May 2017, 8:29 am

Any thoughts on torque of stem nuts(105 nm)? having stripped the original thread (see above)I may have gone a little light on torquing the nut on reassembly(scared of repeat)however it is good and tight,using old torque wrench (deflecting needle type) reading foot pounds,I applied (probably )about 60 ft lbs?
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hh_12345
Silver Bullet
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Posts : 105

Re: 2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

Post by hh_12345 on Wed 03 May 2017, 9:11 am

Can you feel movement while rocking the bike back and forth with the front brake applied? If the nut is not tight enough you should probably check it it that way.

I am not sure if the front end is not supposed to be supported in a way when tightening the nut so that the torque is read/applied correctly.
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twohoots
Squiddy
Squiddy

Posts : 11
Location : Eastbourne

Re: 2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

Post by twohoots on Wed 03 May 2017, 9:22 am

Hi HH
Ok,I'm sure head bearings are correctly adjusted as no play is detectable either in a fwd/backward or up and down motion of the forks,no play felt at bearings using fingers to 'feel" Re your comment about tightening stem nut or adjusting,this was done with wheel OFF the ground and bike supported via a jack under sump,strap from garage rafters and center stand.Is this correct,or should it be done with wheel on ground,don't see that it would make any difference if bearings correctly adjusted,will check Haynes again
Thanks
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ceejay
the 800
the 800

Posts : 262
Location : Bournemouth

Re: 2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

Post by ceejay on Wed 03 May 2017, 9:58 am

When you're riding can you 'feel' the knock through the bars or just hear it? If you can feel it I would take the fairing off again and and ride... if you then cannot feel it then that reduces your search area. Does the fairing make that much difference to noise? (I only have non faired version!) I would have thought if you can hear it with it (at slowish speeds?) you should be able to hear it without but I may be wrong...
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twohoots
Squiddy
Squiddy

Posts : 11
Location : Eastbourne

Re: 2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

Post by twohoots on Wed 03 May 2017, 5:56 pm

Thanks Ceejay
Interesting point ,not considered that,only heard the noise,will do more tests with fairing off (yet again) and on to see if I can feel anything,may not be possible to confirm as on the "S" the handlebars are rubber mounted ,I believe they may not be on naked models(i.e yours).

I can hear the noise clearly at lowish speed i.e. local roads around home,with fairing on,but not with it removed.(I keep telling myself!!!!)

So surely if "felt" then this would mean the noise is transmitting from the forks,through the steering head thence to the bars,so would indicate a fault in those parts, wherupon if only heard could still be some other part of bike i.e. fairing,reacting to the bumps,tho heaven knows what.Am I looking at this correctly?

Will post any results.raining today so can't be a..ed to take her out.

I know,I know fair weather rider and all that,
true,have a nice dry warm car for days like today.
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Beresford
the 900
the 900

Posts : 1424
Location : not that far from Kirkistown

Re: 2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

Post by Beresford on Wed 03 May 2017, 8:24 pm

You seem to have checked all the obvious things, so what about one of the "unlikelies". Is it possible that the bolt at the bottom of one of the fork legs is either cross threaded or too long, allowing one of the damper rods to  move where it shouldn't and "knock"?
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twohoots
Squiddy
Squiddy

Posts : 11
Location : Eastbourne

Re: 2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

Post by twohoots on Wed 03 May 2017, 9:15 pm

Been lots of good ideas and they keep on coming,thanks guys,so lots of things to check first,fairing on or off-can I feel and hear knock,stem nut tightness(need to acquire a new torque wrench as not confident that any of mine are accurate anymore,probably cheaper to buy new than have calibrated,even if there was someone local)So damper rod loose is a good idea as assembled them last week,,so will have to remove struts and give them a shake,
Cheers
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Grarea
Running out of unique names
Running out of unique names

Posts : 181
Location : Cornwall

Re: 2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

Post by Grarea on Thu 04 May 2017, 4:45 pm

Am i right in thinking that you can test your torque wrench with a calculation and a known weight?
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twohoots
Squiddy
Squiddy

Posts : 11
Location : Eastbourne

Re: 2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

Post by twohoots on Thu 04 May 2017, 6:02 pm

Yes indeed you can,and I believe that's the traditional way to calibrate,tho.a wall mounted piece of machinery is more likely to be used nowadays.unfortunately (and I gave it a bit I'd thought) I don't have access to any known weights,as you would wish to calibrate across the range.Bought a new torque wrench today,not expensive but comes with a calibration certificate so I can check out my others.
Thanks for your interest
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hh_12345
Silver Bullet
Silver Bullet

Posts : 105

Re: 2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

Post by hh_12345 on Thu 04 May 2017, 8:58 pm

twohoots wrote:Hi HH
Ok,I'm sure head bearings are correctly adjusted as no play is detectable either  in a fwd/backward or up and down motion of the forks,no play felt at bearings  using fingers to 'feel" Re your comment about tightening stem nut or adjusting,this was done with wheel OFF the ground and bike supported via a jack under sump,strap from garage rafters and center stand.Is this correct,or should it be done with wheel on ground,don't see that it would make any difference if bearings correctly adjusted,will check Haynes again
Thanks

Hi, seems to be correct, I tightened mine in a similar way.
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geoffnorfolk
Godly
Godly

Posts : 63

Re: 2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

Post by geoffnorfolk on Thu 11 May 2017, 7:27 pm

I had a similar problem with my old Honda NTV650.......... adjusted the head bearings "beautifully" so I thought.............. not tight, no play, spot-on I thought. Took it for a ride and had the same "knock" when applying t he brakes though I couldn't feel any play at all.  Reading themanual, there was supposed to be some sort of "preload" on the bearings and you were supposed to torque the adjuster to a particular setting. Didn't have an adapter to use the torque wrench so just tightened them up as far as I could with them still able to move freely.................. problem cured and the bikes still fine several years later.
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wornsprokets
the 900
the 900

Posts : 1200
Location : dublin

Re: 2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

Post by wornsprokets on Fri 12 May 2017, 12:52 pm

Now i could be wrong when u adjust ur bearings..when new.. do u not adjust them again after few 100miles when bearings are beded in to get correct adjustment scratch
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eternally_troubled
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Re: 2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

Post by eternally_troubled on Wed 17 May 2017, 10:42 pm

wornsprokets wrote:Now i could be wrong when u adjust ur bearings..when new.. do u not adjust them again after few 100miles when bearings are beded in to get correct adjustment :scratch:

It's not a bad idea anyway :)

Personally I'd try slightly nipping up the head adjustment and see if it cures the problem.

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Re: 2000 CB500SY Steering Head bearing issue

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