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dreaded rectifier issue??

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jonny10
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dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by jonny10 on Mon 24 Apr 2017, 6:41 pm

Here's the story...
Stopped for break whilst out on a run yesterday and when I went to start her again, there was just a rapid clicking noise, coming from some where under the right side panel - I think. 
Got started on a bump but had to stop soon for petrol. Again, no start, just some clicks. When sitting there revving the engine, the decent biker who helped me bump start, said the headlight was dimming/brightening on the throttle. Not sure if it's my imagination but when I did take off, I don't think she was going well  - kind of slight spluttering. 
I pulled in a few miles along the road to get rain gear on but, of course, forgot to hit neutral before engaging the side stand - ffs!!  
It was so late last night when I got home (and that's a whole other story) I couldn't be arsed looking at it but I did notice that when I turn the key, the dash lights turn dim, but there's no more clicking noise - just nothing.
I'm going to have a look tonight after work but, in the meantime, does this sound like yet another regulator/rectifier (and possibly fried battery) issue?
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Fair Weather Rider
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by Fair Weather Rider on Mon 24 Apr 2017, 7:02 pm

Might be alternator not charging.
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Jameshambleton
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by Jameshambleton on Mon 24 Apr 2017, 7:32 pm

Sounds like a dead reg/rec, it'll either give you too much volts or not enough.. I was actually reading a dodgy reg/rec will not actually fry a good battery but will help to kill off on in poor condition.
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teamster1975
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by teamster1975 on Tue 25 Apr 2017, 2:12 pm

Could be the starter motor, carbon buildup on the commutator, rock back and forth in gear will prove that one and we have a nice how-to on stripping and cleaning it.
When you manage to get the bike started again, stick a meter on the battery at idle to see what voltage you are getting, I'd expect around 13.5v-14v at 1K rpm, see what it peaks at when you rev it to 2K.
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jonny10
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by jonny10 on Tue 25 Apr 2017, 10:16 pm

Thanks guys.
All I''ve had time to do (with working late) was to rock it in gear and it now clicks when you turn the key. If it's the starter I'll be happy but can't get at it properly till w/end. - thanks Teamster.
Will report progress later
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Prawn
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by Prawn on Thu 27 Apr 2017, 10:49 pm

Mine went with a similar tale of commuting misery, it was the original Honda one from memory.

I've Had this cheap chines-ee one in mine now for a nearly a couple years, with no problems.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-Regulator-Rectifier-CB500-CB600-VTR1000-/121457375731?hash=item1c476c79f3:g:u0sAAOSwAHZUN~Ld

muttley1
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by muttley1 on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 9:16 pm

Hi,

I've had a couple of dead battery issues of late, only one helpful jumpstart needed so far.

Today I changed the old reg rec, it had 633 on it for another in my spares drawer, this one marked 693 and I reckon its from a newer bike. It had cooling fins too.

I did notice some corrosion behind the fittling bolts so bit of a clean up needed too. Hopefully this'll resolve things or its new battery time.

muttley1
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geoffnorfolk
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by geoffnorfolk on Sat 29 Apr 2017, 2:47 pm

The fact that the lights brighten/dim when revving the engine suggests that the alternator/reg/rect are actually working ok.  I'd suspect the battery has packed up. Have had the starter motor problems myself and rocking the bike in gear often sorted it....... after that, papping it with a hammer did the trick though  eventually had to dismantle the thing.
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jonny10
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by jonny10 on Sun 30 Apr 2017, 8:04 pm

I checked the battery - it's putting out 12.6v so I assume it (and the charging system) is ok.
I take it the occasional clicking sound when I turn the key is the solenoid. I've tried banging the starter motor with a hammer and rocking the bike in 2nd gear, but to no avail.
Sometimes the clicking sound I referred to earlier, is continuous and rapid, which occurs when I hit the starter button. Other times, such as just now there is no clik at all.

Next step - pull out the starter?
Or, is the solenoid possibly goosed as well/instead??
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Jameshambleton
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by Jameshambleton on Sun 30 Apr 2017, 8:22 pm

@jonny10 wrote:I checked the battery - it's putting out 12.6v so I assume it (and the charging system) is ok.
I take it the occasional clicking sound when I turn the key is the solenoid. I've tried banging the starter motor with a hammer and rocking the bike in 2nd gear, but to no avail.
Sometimes the clicking sound I referred to earlier, is continuous and rapid, which occurs when I hit the starter button. Other times, such as just now there is no clik at all.

Next step - pull out the starter?
Or, is the solenoid possibly goosed as well/instead??

Get someone to press the starter button while you hold the multimeter on the battery. My battery had a dead cell, so rear 12.8 volts and when the starter was pressed it dropped as low as 9 as soon as the starter button was released it rode back to 12.8 within a second.
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by eternally_troubled on Wed 03 May 2017, 7:32 pm

I suspect your battery is dead - the clicking the way you describe suggests this. It might be dead because your regulator-rectifier has also died.

If I were you then charge the battery off the bike (to make sure it is charged up) - it is worth buying a small trickle charger and leaving it on that overnight. If it still doesn't work (after charging all night) then the battery is certainly dead.

If it does work (with the charged battery) then you need to do a charging test on it - measure the voltage across the battery with the headlight on and the engine revving to 5000 rpm. It should be pretty near 14.5 volts - if it's more or less then something else is buggered! (probably the rectifier regulator).
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Beresford
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by Beresford on Wed 03 May 2017, 8:28 pm

@eternally_troubled wrote:It should be pretty near 14.5 volts - if it's more or less then something else is buggered! (probably the rectifier regulator).

Or just a bad connection somewhere ?
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by jonny10 on Sat 06 May 2017, 8:20 pm

@eternally_troubled wrote:I suspect your battery is dead - the clicking the way you describe suggests this.  It might be dead because your regulator-rectifier has also died.

If I were you then charge the battery off the bike (to make sure it is charged up) - it is worth buying a small trickle charger and leaving it on that overnight.  If it still doesn't work (after charging all night) then the battery is certainly dead.

If it does work (with the charged battery) then you need to do a charging test on it - measure the voltage across the battery with the headlight on and the engine revving to 5000 rpm.  It should be pretty near 14.5 volts - if it's more or less then something else is buggered! (probably the rectifier regulator).


I have already been charging the battery (on the bike) and it's reading 12.6v. Surely that's ok?
Fuses look ok and connections look ok as well, except I haven't been able to find where the battery neg is earthed to the bike - but I assume if that conection was faulty nothing at all would work?
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jonny10
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by jonny10 on Sat 06 May 2017, 8:36 pm

@Jameshambleton wrote:

Get someone to press the starter button while you hold the multimeter on the battery. My battery had a dead cell, so rear 12.8 volts and when the starter was pressed it dropped as low as 9 as soon as the starter button was released it rode back to 12.8 within a second.

Just tried this and same thing happened: was reading 12.6v, then when I turrned the key and pressed the starter button, dropped to 9v. Only went back up 11.9v when button released.
I take it this means the batterry is goosed - like in James case.

Question now is, why did it die?
Would it be prudent to get the reg/rectifier tested before geting a new battery, in case the reg was the source of the trouble in the first place? (In case it fries another battery)
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eternally_troubled
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by eternally_troubled on Sun 07 May 2017, 8:06 pm

@jonny10 wrote:
I have already been charging the battery (on the bike) and it's reading 12.6v. Surely that's ok?
Fuses look ok and connections look ok as well, except I haven't been able to find where the battery neg is earthed to the bike - but I assume if that conection was faulty nothing at all would work?

If it's less than 14 volts when you are revving to 5000rpm with the headlight on then something is not right - probably the rectifier regulator.

There is one earth connection near the regulator/rectifier - a flying lead with a ring terminal on it.
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Jameshambleton
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by Jameshambleton on Sun 07 May 2017, 10:35 pm

@jonny10 wrote:
@Jameshambleton wrote:
Get someone to press the starter button while you hold the multimeter on the battery. My battery had a dead cell, so rear 12.8 volts and when the starter was pressed it dropped as low as 9 as soon as the starter button was released it rode back to 12.8 within a second.

Just tried this and same thing happened: was reading 12.6v, then when I turrned the key and pressed the starter button, dropped to 9v. Only went back up 11.9v when button released.
I take it this means the batterry is goosed - like in James case.

Question now is, why did it die?
Would it be prudent to get the reg/rectifier tested before geting a new battery, in case the reg was the source of the trouble in the first place? (In case it fries another battery)



mine was just a duff battery, swapped it out and then all was good for as long as I remember. 
Remember batteries are consumable parts with a life span of 3-7 years , testing the reg/rec would be recommended but it's a dead cell within in the battery that's your issue.

Oh and as for the battery neg is earthed to the bike on one of the starter motor mounting bolts, that can be seen from the offside (cluch side) of the bike.
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jonny10
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by jonny10 on Mon 08 May 2017, 11:26 pm

Thanks James - all connections seem good, so, a battery it is then.

E.T. - when I get the battery and get her started, I'll be be able to do that test..... altho' I might be able to test the reg/rectifier just in case.
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by wornsprokets on Mon 08 May 2017, 11:36 pm

I had reg/rectifier both fail in cb and fireblade as there same part....i have tourmax regulator/ rectifier in cb now last two years and its been fine... i also ran cable from negatve battery terminal to screw hole fixing on to subframe where regulator bolts on....
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jonny10
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by jonny10 on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:30 pm

Right...
put new battery in, all charged up and reading 13.5v
Turned the key and started up first time - so far so good.
Took some voltage readings and am not sure if all is as it should be:

- Idling with headlight off 14.78v (idle is about 1300rpm)
- Idling with headlight on 14.76v
- at 5000rpm headlight off 14.53v
- at 5000rpm headlight on 14.42v

maybe I'm missing something here, but, should the voltage not be lower at idle speed and then rising with revs??
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Jameshambleton
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by Jameshambleton on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:54 pm

@jonny10 wrote:maybe I'm missing something here, but, should the voltage not be lower at idle speed and then rising with revs??

You are correct, the voltage should be lower at idle speed and then rising with revs until it becomes a constant 14.4ish volts.
At this point might be worth checking the reg/rec and seeing if the resistance is within tolerances.
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jonny10
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by jonny10 on Sat 13 May 2017, 3:40 pm

@Jameshambleton wrote:

You are correct, the voltage should be lower at idle speed and then rising with revs until it becomes a constant 14.4ish volts.
At this point might be worth checking the reg/rec and seeing if the resistance is within tolerances.

The reg/rec must have been changed at some time as it's the type with fins (SHS693-12 if that means anything).
The Haynes testing method & table etc doesn't make sense to me so I followed a testing procedure I got on youtube. (There's a few vids on this and they're all very similar.) 
Testing resulted in fairly consistent readings so the reg/rec would seem ok.
Done the other tests referred to at page 9.26 in Haynes and these also check out ok.
Cleaned terminals, earth etc, put all back in and still getting higher volts at idle than at 5000rpm.

Any further advice welcome!
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wornsprokets
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by wornsprokets on Sat 13 May 2017, 4:34 pm

Have look at you tube...type in testing honda regulator rectifier, also  u need a multimeter....
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Jameshambleton
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by Jameshambleton on Sat 13 May 2017, 6:47 pm

@jonny10 wrote:
@Jameshambleton wrote:You are correct, the voltage should be lower at idle speed and then rising with revs until it becomes a constant 14.4ish volts.
At this point might be worth checking the reg/rec and seeing if the resistance is within tolerances.

The reg/rec must have been changed at some time as it's the type with fins (SHS693-12 if that means anything).
The Haynes testing method & table etc doesn't make sense to me so I followed a testing procedure I got on youtube. (There's a few vids on this and they're all very similar.) 
Testing resulted in fairly consistent readings so the reg/rec would seem ok.
Done the other tests referred to at page 9.26 in Haynes and these also check out ok.
Cleaned terminals, earth etc, put all back in and still getting higher volts at idle than at 5000rpm.

Any further advice welcome!

Swap the reg/rec for another one, you've got nothing to lose and spares are always handy.
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jonny10
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by jonny10 on Sun 14 May 2017, 7:33 pm

@Jameshambleton wrote:

Swap the reg/rec for another one, you've got nothing to lose and spares are always handy.

Yep, just ordered this - says its OEM & if it is, it's a good price.


 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-REGULATOR-RECTIFIER-HONDA-CB500S-2000-TO-2002-1-YEAR-WARRANTY-/112324672914?fits=UKM_Make%3AHonda&hash=item1a27127d92:g:cQYAAOSw4CFYvBpq
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Re: dreaded rectifier issue??

Post by Drago76 on Sun 14 May 2017, 7:41 pm

@jonny10 wrote:



@Jameshambleton wrote:

Swap the reg/rec for another one, you've got nothing to lose and spares are always handy.





Yep, just ordered this - says its OEM & if it is, it's a good price.



they sells for about 8 - 10 USD. i buy two of that for such money, and it works ok ( yet i been driving for about only 300 miles).
but, if you have about 14.2 volts at all rpm diapasone, i not see, why you bother. all looks in spec, and as russians say "do not hinder technic work"...not need repair thinks, until it is broken.

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