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rode a '14 street triple today and...

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trevor machine
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rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by trevor machine on Mon 17 Apr 2017, 10:29 pm

...felt a bit underwhelmed by the whole experience. Soz for the off-topic, ostensibly non-cb500 nature of this topic, but I will introduce some relevance in a sec by comparing the two bikes. First though, let me just very quickly say what - precisely - left me a bit unimpressed: I didn't feel like there was much feedback. It all seemed a bit wooden, somehow. Like there wasn't much coming back off the tyres, up the forks, and along the bars to my hands. Meanwhile the rear had a slightly unpleasant firmness to it that seemed, well, a bit poorly dampened. NB the bike was an "R" model, whatever that means.

Ergos - taller seat than the 500 yet higher pegs. Wider bars. Mirrors - oh man. The mirrors. Never have I experienced such abysmal, useless, unusable mirrors. Just...wow. What the hell. No adjustment, no...anything. Dire. And these were stock oem items NB.

Bike was eager to go, of course - had quick shifter but as I hate this kind of bullshit gadget I tried to ensure it never changed up without me clutching in the usual way. I rode the bike for 8 miles or so along my favourite, fairly twisty, route (where a steady 60 feels like a bit of an achievement). Got a couple of overtakes in. Etc.

Yeah. Didn't really like it. Steering was accurate, but something not quite to my liking about it somehow - hard to pinpoint what, though. It's almost as though there's a bit of a lag between rider input and - well - the bike does do what you tell it to do, but it's like it's ever so slightly reluctant to tell you it's done what you told it to. Or something like that.

Getting back onto the 500, the front end especially felt "right". There was bags of info coming off the front tyre. Like I could feel every grain of grit in the tarmac. And yet at the same time, every pot hole and imperfection was cushioned and softened. Quite a feat from a bike that cost me a tenth what this guy paid and which is 20 years old.
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by trevor machine on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 7:16 am

Ok - I've slept on it and just wanted to add these quick comments to the above.

"Vague" - that's the word testers and bike journos often trot out to describe part of my feelings when I rode the STR.

And of course, it's a word you will never come across when you read the myriad amazing reviews of the bike that can be found in mags, papers, blogs, vlogs and reviews the world over. Instead, the adjectives of choice are more like "superb", "nimble", "poised", "sharp" etc. etc. etc. And this from riders who are very experienced, very fast and very knowledgeable. Of which I'm none, of course.

So basically I have to be wrong. I do accept that. But damn it I didn't really like the bloody thing, and I swear the 500 somehow manages to convey more detail of what's happening with the front wheel. Neutral

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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by sullivj on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 8:15 am

Interesting Trevor. I believe the R model has adjustable suspension, and better BIGGER brakes.

JerryFudd has a Street Triple as his daily commuter, covering some serious mileage on it. He really likes it.

I wonder if the one you were on, could have benefited from some new boots, or a suspension set up.

Normally, they're regarded as very good bikes in all the reviews I've read.  Most modern bikes will feel a bit 'disconnected' from the road, compared to the humble CB I expect. You should try my BMW R1200 RT. It's like sitting in an arm chair, whilst being cocooned by gadgetry from every 'normal' riders input!!
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by Jameshambleton on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 9:20 am

@sullivj wrote:You should try my BMW R1200 RT. It's like sitting in an arm chair, whilst being cocooned by gadgetry from every 'normal' riders input!!

You mean like the disconnected throttle sorry "wide by wire" that did my head in when I played on one, I want power NOW not in half a second when it decides I need power. it's easy to handle at slow speeds but the throttle I can't stand on it.
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by trevor machine on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 6:36 am

jerry'll probably kick my ass for this cos the "striple" seems well-loved by owners.
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by trevor machine on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 6:43 am

@sullivj wrote: Most modern bikes will feel a bit 'disconnected' from the road, compared to the humble CB I expect.

Oh - interesting point, that. I wonder why this is, though? I suspect you're right - but I wish it wasn't the case, and in some ways you'd expect the opposite to be true, what with all the gradual advances that have been made in materials, manufacturing processes, and of course computerised technologies. I think maybe the point is that the simpler a bike is, the more immediate all the sensations of riding it become. Within reason - i.e. providing it's well-designed and well-made - which many Japanese bikes of the '90s were. Since then perhaps a lot of things have become too complicated and added various thin layers of disconnet from the rider that add up to a noticeable amount.
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by tt fan on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 8:18 am

Interesting thread! Mention of other bikes often gets me thinking of "upgrading" to something bigger that feels better 2-up on a motorway. Apart from the cost of buying and running such a bike, the compromise when it comes to my favourite (and usually solo) 50 miles of back roads seems too great. With fresh fork oil and a new front tyre i could hardly believe the "feedback" off the CB500!
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by stormbringer on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 10:42 am

@trevor machine wrote:I think maybe the point is that the simpler a bike is, the more immediate all the sensations of riding it become.

Agreed. Not that you should put much credit to what I'm saying, as my reference frame is modern day cars, not modern day bikes. But yes; immediate is a term I'd recognise.

Modern-day wide-by-wire-consumer-grade-vehicles come with a range of assistive technologies, all taking rider/driver input, processing it and from what I can read here adding latency/inertia to the operation. I assume this is by design, probably to cushion the customer (automotive companies think of us as that, not as enthusiastic motorists) from any upsetting experiences, and probably upping the fuel economy in the process.
To me, those are all gagged-up and leaned-out imitations of the real deal, lavished with a plethora of anti-fun (anti-stupidity?) 'assistive' systems. I can't help but think this may be to avoid lawsuits following from the use of their product in the hands of clueless know-nothings, combined with a desire to come out on top in the tech-spec-race, thus selling more.

Now, who wouldn't want to have launch-control, anti-wheelie-control, anti-stoppie-control, ABS, 6-axis-gyro-assisted cornering-control, auto-cancelling winkers, automatic headlights and an ECU with at least three different programs? Something to brag about in the canteen at lunchtime... Why not an outside-temperature-thermometer while we're at it No proper biker can live without one of those, right?

So, here we are. If you want something else than the aforementioned technocrap, there seems to be little choice if you want 'new'. Maybe an Ural?

Me? I'd settle for heated grips and a heated seat. And more time to ride my CB. You see, there's a few places around Europe I'd like to take a closer look at...
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by trevor machine on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 1:07 pm

But I don't think these charges can be levelled at the Street Triple. It probably has ABS, and this kid's had a quick shifter (load of bollocks) - but beyond that it was qutie stripped down. Iirc, wasn't it born of owners fightering their Daytonas - and realising that Triumph's fully fared triple made an entertaining naked, once wide flat bars and Dominator headlights were fitted? In any case, someone somewhere could probably make an argument that the 'Striple' was a return to a simpler bike that made for a more immediate riding experience. Yet I still didn't really like it. Then again, I'm so sick of hearing how amazing this bike is that I think I could only ever be a BIT disappointed.
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by stormbringer on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 7:48 pm

In theory, bikes should be less affected, as potential owners tend to be looking for 'poise', character or whatever today's buzzword is. Still, emissions regulations must be considered, and I suspect that ECU fuel mappings will be leaning towards economy rather than a more lively setup. Result being that hesitant or detached sense you refer to. Coincidentally, Badseeds's got a CB500 2014 and describes it as 'gutless'. Could it be the same phenomenon at play?
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by trevor machine on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 9:45 pm

Yeah you said about Badsy getting a new 500. I was a bit wrong-footed by that. There are still really good '90s 500s to be had for way less than the price of a new one - and the former are a better bike in almost every way excluding fuel consumption. What's more he loved little donkey and rode it like a good 'un. A bloody good 'un. Probably the forum's best. He needs a bike that will give as good as it gets, and that will respond to a proper riding.
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by Munky205 on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 12:25 am

I had a similar experience today, only I rode the new 765cc Street Triple, the highest spec RS and like you I was totally underwhelmed by the experience. 

I had read all the reviews and had seen nothing but praise for the new RS and previous 675's so had high hopes which were not to be met. Sure, there were some good bits, like the quickshifter (never used one before) and the new full colour TFT screen, the suspension was firm but forgiving over potholes or bumps and the chassis was very responsive and flickable although I still felt somehow disconnected from the bike. 
My main gripe was with the engine, all I kept reading was how "a triple has the low grunt of a 'twin' but with the top power of an inline 4", I found this to not be the case with the Triumph power plant. 
Accelerating from 4k the induction noise got louder (which sounds awesome) but not a lot else happened, at 7-8k warp speed occurs but this is almost identical in power delivery to my brothers CBR600RR so what's the point?
 
As a comparison I then test rode the '17 Yamaha MT09 and loved it. The engine did as it should, low grunt from 3-4k like my CB and power all the way to the limiter. Chassis was neutral in that it was slightly reluctant to lean for the first 5° but fell in beautifully after this and the new suspension meant it held a tight line all through the apex and out the other side. The seat is hideously firm and the looks are marmite but I love the overall package. The MT09 will be my next bike and will probably replace the CB500 as it's such a good all rounder.
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by trevor machine on Sat 22 Apr 2017, 7:33 pm

The seat on the MT07 is supposed to be painfully firm too.
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by trevor machine on Sun 23 Apr 2017, 6:45 pm

Okay - a footnote to my OP and others.

I should of course have mentioned my mate's views on the CB500, now that I've trashed his recent and already much cherished purchase.

I think he was a bit horrified tbh. Primarily by the abject lack of refinement - my bike's (too) loud, far too loud really. It's got no bar-end weights, so low-frequency, shaky vibrations can be felt at all times under 3k. No screen - just the wind battering into you over the clocks once you go faster than 50. Combine all this with a comparatively soggy (I actually and honestly think of it as plush, lol) suspension and you have quite a contrast with the street triple. One thing he immediately commented on was how low it was - he was flat footing with ease, and he's a short bloke). Other observations - something about torque, and ease of access to what power there was. And that was about it. I harangued him for more feedback but he seemed to be taking after his Street Triple. Like owner, like bike - as they never say, but perhaps sometimes should.
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by jerryfudd on Mon 24 Apr 2017, 4:29 pm

@trevor machine wrote:jerry'll probably kick my ass for this cos the "striple" seems well-loved by owners.

hahahahahah sounds like rider error to me Wink

I will say I as many do had trouble with the mirrors, you need to put all 5 digits on it and work...... or even massage the glass to move into a position that suits. I've switched over to bar ends now.

I also switched the throttle tube out with one off the 1050 Speed with a larger cam, which is what prompted me to mod the CB500 one and I absolutely love it. The pull off the line now feels like you are waiting for your body to catch up.

As for the suspension - its fully adjustable so if its too hard/soft etc then its just setup wrong. That said mine never left the factory as an 'R' and came with unadjustable suspension which felt awful so I popped in the R forks, R monobloc callipers (non-R brakes are terrible!) and Ohlins rear shock from a Daytona R.

Stock exhaust is quite restrictive so popped on an SC Conic.

I loved the bike from the start but now its just so so so much better.

So, the pic from the ad...



and the bike as it is now....



....and an older pic but shows the rear shock Razz



Its comfortable, quick, nimble just an awesome bike in every way in my opinion and never fails to make me happy.... however sometimes I want to ride something that takes more rider involvement, something that feels like I have to put effort in to get results out and thats what I love my CB for Very Happy

Dan
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by Jameshambleton on Thu 04 May 2017, 12:23 pm

@jerryfudd wrote:As for the suspension - its fully adjustable so if its too hard/soft etc then its just setup wrong. That said mine never left the factory as an 'R' and came with unadjustable suspension which felt awful so I popped in the R forks, R monobloc callipers (non-R brakes are terrible!) and Ohlins rear shock from a Daytona R.

Are the daytona and street's a simple slide in slide out then? 
What are the differences between the R forks and the standard, just the caliper mounts and the preload adjusters in the top of the forks?
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by jerryfudd on Thu 04 May 2017, 1:12 pm

The Daytona and R are a straight swap on the rear shock, non-R also but will jack up the back +20mm.

Difference with the R forks is that they have adjustability and cater for the monobloc rather than floating front callipers as you said.
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by trevor machine on Thu 04 May 2017, 2:34 pm

Oh - this thread's back. Funnily enough I did push my triple owning mate for more opinions on what he felt sucked about the cb500. It's "vague", he said. I...I had no words.
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by Jameshambleton on Thu 04 May 2017, 3:02 pm

That's great news to know, so it's the same spacers, axle bolt, offset and wheel hub length then?


@trevor machine wrote:Oh - this thread's back. Funnily enough I did push my triple owning mate for more opinions on what he felt sucked about the cb500. It's "vague", he said. I...I had no words.

when I rode my other cb500 before I broke it for parts, it also felt very vague almost dangerous... Nothing like my own cb500 other than looks.
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by jerryfudd on Thu 04 May 2017, 4:31 pm

Regularly switching between the two the CB feels limiting at first with the lack of power, more unstable and scary when you feel the difference that 2 pot compared to 8 makes but when you settle into the ride and keep the CB In that 5k+ sweet spot it's awesome and feels great to give it a good thrashing without feeling like it's getting out of hand. I regularly let off on the Street thinking that's enough now.

Both great machines but a 5min ride of either just doesn't give enough time to have the confidence on them.

Dan
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by trevor machine on Thu 04 May 2017, 5:42 pm

True.
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by ratatooie on Fri 05 May 2017, 3:53 pm

I also daily a Street Triple, albeit a 2008 one, which has had more or less all the mods that @jerryfudd describes below as well. I agree with pretty much everything that he has said too. 

Personally I love the Striple. So much so that my other road bikes haven't really gotten a look in since I bought it! It is so easy and intuitive to ride and capable of far better handling and more speed than I will ever need. It just works fantastically at everything I throw at it, whether that is filtering past all the traffic on the way to work or doing a lap of the Course. 

Different horses for different courses I guess, but I found the MT09 no where near as good by comparison after test riding both bikes a few times. The engine was the only thing on the MT that stood out. 

Just my 2p.
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by Beresford on Fri 05 May 2017, 5:51 pm

@ratatooie wrote: The engine was the only thing on the MT that stood out.
That seems to be the general consensus of all that I have heard and read. Really nice engine and really low rent everything else. But it is a cheap bike, so what else would be expected?
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by trevor machine on Fri 05 May 2017, 6:00 pm

The CB500 was a cheap bike - but I do get the feeling it exceeded people's expectations.
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Re: rode a '14 street triple today and...

Post by jerryfudd on Fri 05 May 2017, 7:35 pm

@trevor machine wrote:The CB500 was a cheap bike - but I do get the feeling it exceeded people's expectations.

absolutely, as soon as you can get them to overlook their main problem with it - which is that 'its a CB500'.

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