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clutch issues

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Chrisc54
Crotch Rocketuer
Crotch Rocketuer

Posts : 31
Location : swindon, wiltshire

clutch issues

Post by Chrisc54 on Sat 04 Mar 2017, 5:38 pm

evening all im currently having a right ball ache with my clutch
i replaced the needle bearing as it was knackered and put the clutch plates back together the way they came off the bike
had it running fine but the clutch wont disengage no matter how i adjust the cable

took it all apart again to re check the plates ive got the spring seat/anti-judder spring an the plate that goes over them on correctly
going by the manual its states theres a 3rd type of plate that sits innermost but i cant see any difference between the remaining plates?

im completely lost here as why the clutch wont disengage

anybody got any advice/help please
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Crash- Elmit
Godzilla
Godzilla

Posts : 236
Location : Rothwell, Nr Kettering

Re: clutch issues

Post by Crash- Elmit on Sat 04 Mar 2017, 6:41 pm

If I'm correct, (someone will  come along and tell me if I'm wrong), one of the plates has a larger dia hole than the rest, and this should be the first plate fitted after the anti judder spring.

Chrisc54
Crotch Rocketuer
Crotch Rocketuer

Posts : 31
Location : swindon, wiltshire

Re: clutch issues

Post by Chrisc54 on Sat 04 Mar 2017, 6:43 pm

@Crash- Elmit wrote:If I'm correct, (someone will  come along and tell me if I'm wrong), one of the plates has a larger dia hole than the rest, and this should be the first plate fitted after the anti judder spring.

yea got that one fitted over the spring just the manual states theres a 3rd different plate to sit over the back end of the basket but i cant see any difference in them

completely lost as to why the clutch doesnt disengage
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Crash- Elmit
Godzilla
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Posts : 236
Location : Rothwell, Nr Kettering

Re: clutch issues

Post by Crash- Elmit on Sat 04 Mar 2017, 6:48 pm

check the friction plate tab sizes. looking at the official CB500 manual one of the plates has larger tabs and is the last plate to fit


if there is a way of doing it I can upload a proper workshop manual to the forum.


Last edited by Crash- Elmit on Sat 04 Mar 2017, 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added info)

Chrisc54
Crotch Rocketuer
Crotch Rocketuer

Posts : 31
Location : swindon, wiltshire

Re: clutch issues

Post by Chrisc54 on Sat 04 Mar 2017, 7:09 pm

ill check the tabs tomorrow

the haynes manual state
note that there are 3 types of friction plate
the innermost plate having a different internal diameter to fit over the tabs on the clutch pressure plate and the outermost to fit over the anti-judder spring and spring seat
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Crash- Elmit
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Posts : 236
Location : Rothwell, Nr Kettering

Re: clutch issues

Post by Crash- Elmit on Sat 04 Mar 2017, 9:37 pm

here is a close up of the clutch plate fitment from my workshop manual:


Chrisc54
Crotch Rocketuer
Crotch Rocketuer

Posts : 31
Location : swindon, wiltshire

Re: clutch issues

Post by Chrisc54 on Sat 04 Mar 2017, 10:08 pm

Just had a quick look and measured the slots.
Theres no difference on my clutch basket the deep an shallow slots are 14mm

Rubbish pic but heres my clutch 

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Crash- Elmit
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Godzilla

Posts : 236
Location : Rothwell, Nr Kettering

Re: clutch issues

Post by Crash- Elmit on Sat 04 Mar 2017, 10:20 pm

Really stupid question, Chris, but is the actuating pin in place in the clutch cover?

Chrisc54
Crotch Rocketuer
Crotch Rocketuer

Posts : 31
Location : swindon, wiltshire

Re: clutch issues

Post by Chrisc54 on Sat 04 Mar 2017, 10:39 pm

Yes the release pin in in place and moves freely.

When i had it all back together with the cable adjusted as far as it would go could feel the pressure of it pushing the clutch but wouldnt disengage

sullivj
the 900
the 900

Posts : 2171
Location : Gatwick

Re: clutch issues

Post by sullivj on Sun 05 Mar 2017, 6:55 am

My thoughts were with the pin too. I thought mine was jammed before, but I hadn't put the rod back in properly!

Chrisc54
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Crotch Rocketuer

Posts : 31
Location : swindon, wiltshire

Re: clutch issues

Post by Chrisc54 on Sun 05 Mar 2017, 12:00 pm

right ive just put all the clutch together an after tightening the center nut the clutch is stiff to turn(when in neutral)

i screwed the adjuster right in on the bars then adjusted the cable on the casing to take up the slack

i pull the lever and its pretty stiff but the clutch still wont disengage

was absolutely fine before i replaced the clutch needle bearing

Chrisc54
Crotch Rocketuer
Crotch Rocketuer

Posts : 31
Location : swindon, wiltshire

Re: clutch issues

Post by Chrisc54 on Sun 05 Mar 2017, 2:04 pm

finally worked out what problem was, i didnt have the needle bearing quite fitted in properly
literally tapped it in another 1mm an the clutch is now working properly

although annoyingly after all this its still not cured the clutch rattle so may invest in another basket an see if that sorts it
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Crash- Elmit
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Posts : 236
Location : Rothwell, Nr Kettering

Re: clutch issues

Post by Crash- Elmit on Sun 05 Mar 2017, 7:44 pm

Our 500's are renown for clutch rattle. rather than suffer the expense of a new clutch basket. get a stronger set of springs from EBC, which is what I did and now my clutch is  really quiet.

Chrisc54
Crotch Rocketuer
Crotch Rocketuer

Posts : 31
Location : swindon, wiltshire

Re: clutch issues

Post by Chrisc54 on Sun 05 Mar 2017, 8:13 pm

@Crash- Elmit wrote:Our 500's are renown for clutch rattle. rather than suffer the expense of a new clutch basket. get a stronger set of springs from EBC, which is what I did and now my clutch is  really quiet.

ill get some at the end of the month an give them a try, cheers
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ANDYC
the 900
the 900

Mechanic
Posts : 919
Location : Windsor

Re: clutch issues

Post by ANDYC on Sun 05 Mar 2017, 11:17 pm

@Chrisc54 wrote:



@Crash- Elmit wrote:Our 500's are renown for clutch rattle. rather than suffer the expense of a new clutch basket. get a stronger set of springs from EBC, which is what I did and now my clutch is  really quiet.





ill get some at the end of the month an give them a try, cheers



The problems are that the springs are much harder than the alloy basket.


I did a lot of research into this and am planning to use a type of rubber insert instead of springs in my track bike project to see how it fares.

sullivj
the 900
the 900

Posts : 2171
Location : Gatwick

Re: clutch issues

Post by sullivj on Mon 06 Mar 2017, 6:21 am

Wow - that is some serious wear.interesting pix. Now wondering what mine looks like!
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Crash- Elmit
Godzilla
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Posts : 236
Location : Rothwell, Nr Kettering

Re: clutch issues

Post by Crash- Elmit on Mon 06 Mar 2017, 12:38 pm

Mine does not seem to have any damage to it at all, apart from usual wear and tear, though I have not changed any clutch parts except stronger springs and new plates.
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ANDYC
the 900
the 900

Mechanic
Posts : 919
Location : Windsor

Re: clutch issues

Post by ANDYC on Mon 06 Mar 2017, 2:47 pm

@Crash- Elmit wrote:Mine does not seem to have any damage to it at all, apart from usual wear and tear, though I have not changed any clutch parts except stronger springs and new plates.



Did you change the 4 pressure springs?
The springs that cause this wear are the ones in between the basket and the backplate.
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Crash- Elmit
Godzilla
Godzilla

Posts : 236
Location : Rothwell, Nr Kettering

Re: clutch issues

Post by Crash- Elmit on Mon 06 Mar 2017, 4:51 pm

I changed both sets, as I had no idea how long the others had been in for.

 I'm currently about to change all the springs on the rear brake- the return spring is almost worn through on the hooks.
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Beresford
the 900
the 900

Posts : 1558
Location : not that far from Kirkistown

Re: clutch issues

Post by Beresford on Mon 06 Mar 2017, 9:35 pm

@ANDYC wrote:I did a lot of research into this and am planning to use a type of rubber insert instead of springs in my track bike project to see how it fares.

Andy, could you keep us informed about this mod as you try it please? It sounds interesting.
What kind of material, sources, experience in use etc.?
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ANDYC
the 900
the 900

Mechanic
Posts : 919
Location : Windsor

Re: clutch issues

Post by ANDYC on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 8:28 am

@Beresford wrote:

@ANDYC wrote:I did a lot of research into this and am planning to use a type of rubber insert instead of springs in my track bike project to see how it fares.



Andy, could you keep us informed about this mod as you try it please? It sounds interesting.
What kind of material, sources, experience in use etc.?
Will do.
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Crash- Elmit
Godzilla
Godzilla

Posts : 236
Location : Rothwell, Nr Kettering

Re: clutch issues

Post by Crash- Elmit on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:18 am

On the power presses I used to work with we used a type of strong rubber block that would compress quite a lot  to push formed components out of the forming tool, as it was better than springs because it could take more punishment/heat (the extreme pressure and heat would anneal springs).

This is probably the same material as Andy is talking about.

Chrisc54
Crotch Rocketuer
Crotch Rocketuer

Posts : 31
Location : swindon, wiltshire

Re: clutch issues

Post by Chrisc54 on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:38 am

How exactly to i get the clutch basket apart?
Looks to me like its riveted together somehow
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ANDYC
the 900
the 900

Mechanic
Posts : 919
Location : Windsor

Re: clutch issues

Post by ANDYC on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 2:16 pm

@Chrisc54 wrote:How exactly to i get the clutch basket apart?
Looks to me like its riveted together somehow



It is riveted.
You have to drill the rivets out, I've replaced mine with high tensile screws. Use self locking nuts, but not the nylock type as the plastic wont take the temperature found inside the engine.

Chrisc54
Crotch Rocketuer
Crotch Rocketuer

Posts : 31
Location : swindon, wiltshire

Re: clutch issues

Post by Chrisc54 on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 9:12 pm

thanks i think ill pick up another clutch basket an give this a try
i work as a press setter an we have some nylon stuff like youve used but its red

i take it you lock the screws/nuts so theres still some play in a basket so as not to lock the 2 parts together?

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