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Running problems have returned - Coils Packs/HT Leads

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Vardypeeps
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Running problems have returned - Coils Packs/HT Leads

Post by Vardypeeps on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 9:14 am

Hi Guys.

Ran a search but couldn't really find anything.

I find everytime there is moisture in the air it gathers where the HT lead exits the bottom coil pack.

Does anyone have any tips on how to seal the gap where the plastic cap fits to the coil to avoid the charge working through when moist and discharging on the frame?

Bit of vaseline and electrical tape? Any tips greatly appreciated Smile


Last edited by Vardypeeps on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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ANDYC
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Re: Running problems have returned - Coils Packs/HT Leads

Post by ANDYC on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 10:18 am

This is an age old problem. Electrical  connections exposed to the weather and vibration are a poor combination.
The best solution that I found was to fit coils that sit directly on the plugs and eliminate the need for HT leads and plug caps. I use the ones from 929/954 fireblade that are readily available and easy to fit. I have some available if you're interested.
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Vardypeeps
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Re: Running problems have returned - Coils Packs/HT Leads

Post by Vardypeeps on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 10:27 am

@ANDYC wrote:This is an age old problem. Electrical  connections exposed to the weather and vibration are a poor combination.
The best solution that I found was to fit coils that sit directly on the plugs and eliminate the need for HT leads and plug caps. I use the ones from 929/954 fireblade that are readily available and easy to fit. I have some available if you're interested.

I would be interested with some pics of how they look. Never had this kind of issue so prelevant in a bike!

Any tips on a bodge/fix for now are still appreciated as I'm short on funds until payday Smile
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ANDYC
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Re: Running problems have returned - Coils Packs/HT Leads

Post by ANDYC on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 10:59 am

http://www.cb500club.net/t2264-coil-upgrade#15349

This is a thread I did on the mod a while back, amalgamating tape I find is a pretty good short term solution as it's flexible and doesn't unravel itself at the first sight of WD40 as most insulating tapes do.
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Vardypeeps
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Re: Running problems have returned - Coils Packs/HT Leads

Post by Vardypeeps on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 12:11 pm

@ANDYC wrote:http://www.cb500club.net/t2264-coil-upgrade#15349

This is a thread I did on the mod a while back, amalgamating tape I find is a pretty good short term solution as it's flexible and doesn't unravel itself at the first sight of WD40 as most insulating tapes do.

Pop me a message through rergarding the price on those stick coils you have and I'll have a read through the original thread, seems like a great upgrade if you then only need the small wiring loom wires and it works around the moisture/age issues.
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eternally_troubled
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Re: Running problems have returned - Coils Packs/HT Leads

Post by eternally_troubled on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 2:37 pm

@Vardypeeps wrote:Hi Guys.

Ran a search but couldn't really find anything.

I find everytime there is moisture in the air it gathers where the HT lead exits the bottom coil pack.

Does anyone have any tips on how to seal the gap where the plastic cap fits to the coil to avoid the charge working through when moist and discharging on the frame?

Bit of vaseline and electrical tape? Any tips greatly appreciated :)

A careful slathering of dielectric grease may help this situation - it is used to fill any air-gaps and prevent arcing. Vaseline can be used instead but has a tendency to melt as things get warmer (which, right now, may not be a problem!) and doesn't last as long as proper dielectric grease.

Electrical tape may help if you can get it to stick and stay in the right place (may not work with the Vaseline!).

I've never (thankfully) had to take the CB500 coils etc apart - can the HT cable be replaced? It might be worth doing this (as well as sealing the cap) *as well* - the rubber does degrade over time and cracks which isn't a problem when it is dry, but when it is wet/humid.....

Andy's solution may be better, but you can probably lay your hands on some Vaseline and/or electrical tape right now!
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Vardypeeps
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Re: Running problems have returned - Coils Packs/HT Leads

Post by Vardypeeps on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 12:28 pm

@eternally_troubled wrote:

@Vardypeeps wrote:Hi Guys.

Ran a search but couldn't really find anything.

I find everytime there is moisture in the air it gathers where the HT lead exits the bottom coil pack.

Does anyone have any tips on how to seal the gap where the plastic cap fits to the coil to avoid the charge working through when moist and discharging on the frame?

Bit of vaseline and electrical tape? Any tips greatly appreciated Smile



A careful slathering of dielectric grease may help this situation - it is used to fill any air-gaps and prevent arcing.  Vaseline can be used instead but has a tendency to melt as things get warmer (which, right now, may not be a problem!) and doesn't last as long as proper dielectric grease.

Electrical tape may help if you can get it to stick and stay in the right place (may not work with the Vaseline!).

I've never (thankfully) had to take the CB500 coils etc apart - can the HT cable be replaced?  It might be worth doing this (as well as sealing the cap) *as well* - the rubber does degrade over time and cracks which isn't a problem when it is dry, but when it is wet/humid.....

Andy's solution may be better, but you can probably lay your hands on some Vaseline and/or electrical tape right now!

I've decided to go with the upgrade option as I want reliability on poor weather as I don't mind donning the old bin bag and going for a wet ride Razz

Thank You for the tips.
I need to get some dielectric grease and have a role of elec tape on my back pack with a few tools if it gets REALLY bad!

Can confirm that after fitting non standard HT leads after around 2 weeks the moisture had made it's way back between the cap and lead where it attaches to the coil and it began arching to the frame again with an audioable click over a de-baffled 350mm delkevic!
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rob75
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Re: Running problems have returned - Coils Packs/HT Leads

Post by rob75 on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 6:41 pm

I only have my Cb as a reference so if there is anything different take a good look at the parts on your bike.

The coils have screw caps over the HT leads. INside these caps there is a rubber seal. This seal hardens and shrinks, leaving a path for moisture.
At the same time, the HT leads degrade over time. It is a common problem with any kind of spark plug HT leads.
Testing: engine running idle, take one cap of at a time and listen to the drop in RPM. Difference should be the same for both leads. Plant spray with plain water spraying over the leads. Preferably in the dark, so you can see the sparks from the lead to anywhere you don't want them.
Measure the resistance between primary and ground and between secondary and ground. Check with the Haynes manual. Also measure between primary and secondary parts for short cuts.
Look at the connections from the CDI and ground to the frame. Measure connectivity.

Solution: the HT leads are just plain universal HT leads you can get at any car parts store. The leads just screw into the spark plug caps. These can also be replaced if necessary.
The caps on the coils can split once unscrewed and screwd on again. These are just plain NGK parts, that are used on millions of coils and other kind of HT connections. Your local motorcycle shop will have something that fits.

Conclusion: It is all standard stuff that wears over time and leaves you with bad connections and loss of spark energy.

There are only two plugs and two cilinders. Any failure has a huge impact.

BTW: with the current weather, forst-defrost, damp and condensation is a nightmare for ignition parts. After warming up the problems may dissapear like snow in the sun.

Cheers,
Rob

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