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Now not starting!

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skyerae
Barry Sheene
Barry Sheene

Posts : 97
Location : Deepest darkest Scotland.

Now not starting!

Post by skyerae on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 8:43 pm

Getting my bike ready for it's MOT and had it running a few days ago, having stood for a while it started on one cylinder and the second cylinder kicked in after a while and let it run for a long while to make sure it was fine. 

Today I went to start it and it kinda started on one cylinder again and died when I blipped the throttle. Then it resolutely refused to start, until I ran the battery flat. Now the battery is on charge and I am stumped.

What I cannot understand was that on Tuesday it was running fine and today it refused to run at all. Any suggestions will be checked as the MOT is booked for tomorrow but I will cancel it and rebook it for Saturday. Really need the bike for next week as the car is booked in for the MOT as well, which I know it will fail and will need repairs to get it to pass the MOT.
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burning_rubber
Two Tone
Two Tone

Posts : 139
Location : wils

Re: Now not starting!

Post by burning_rubber on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 9:40 pm

have you looked at the plugs ?
is the fuel old ? new fuel might help
did you drain the carbs before sitting the bike up ?
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Jameshambleton
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 1720
Location : Bedale, North Yorkshire

Re: Now not starting!

Post by Jameshambleton on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 10:49 pm

check the loom connections to the coils and see if you can get petrol coming out of the drain hole in the carbs on the cylinder that isn't running.
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GlenAnderson
Laser Shark
Laser Shark

Posts : 193
Location : Dover

Re: Now not starting!

Post by GlenAnderson on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 2:02 am

Have you knocked the kill switch on the handlebar?
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skyerae
Barry Sheene
Barry Sheene

Posts : 97
Location : Deepest darkest Scotland.

Re: Now not starting!

Post by skyerae on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 7:31 am

On my bike (the "R" model) the starter will not turn with the kill switch off so that is not the issue. I have charged the battery which is now reading 12.9 volts after having the charger switched to a different battery last night. Will install it shortly (still dark in Scotland - so a torch job) and see it it will fire up.
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skyerae
Barry Sheene
Barry Sheene

Posts : 97
Location : Deepest darkest Scotland.

Re: Now not starting!

Post by skyerae on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 12:31 pm

Checked the kill switch, and then the bike wouldn't turn over, cleaned it with electrical contact cleaner and the bike is now turning over again, but not starting. Had this issue last year - I think the switch is on it's way out - the cold, frosty morning doesn't help in any way either.
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skyerae
Barry Sheene
Barry Sheene

Posts : 97
Location : Deepest darkest Scotland.

Re: Now not starting!

Post by skyerae on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 12:37 pm

Still not going so checked the air filter, which was pretty clean so removed the filter - hopefully a new one should arrive today. Checked the sub-air cleaner and the filer (possibly sponge?) has largely disintegrated and what was left was a sticky gooey mess. Now cleaned out (hose as well) and left to dry. Is it possible to still get the filter - I wouldn't think so? What do I use instead, or just leave the filter container empty? Checked fuel flow from the tank, no issues there, lots of flow. Now to check the spark plugs, the caps are really quite a tight fit but they will come off. New spark plugs should also arrive today, bought a service kit as I have misplaced all the bits (have the oil though) that I had to service the bike.
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skyerae
Barry Sheene
Barry Sheene

Posts : 97
Location : Deepest darkest Scotland.

Re: Now not starting!

Post by skyerae on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 1:04 pm

Removed the plugs and they are fouled with oil, but not too badly and reeking of petrol (wet in fact). So no fuel issue, but will check for spark after lunch and investigate further.
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skyerae
Barry Sheene
Barry Sheene

Posts : 97
Location : Deepest darkest Scotland.

Re: Now not starting!

Post by skyerae on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 4:54 pm

Took off coils and they are in spec but one of the plug caps is out of spec. Ordered both plug caps and the sub-air filter which is still available (surprisingly!) from Fowlers. Hopefully they will arrive on Monday or so and will fit them then. Just need to check the readings on the pulse generator coil tomorrow and I can go no further than that.Will update as I go on -  in case anyone is interested. As both plugs were wet I assume that fuel is flowing into both cylinders, I think the cap that is out of spec might have been the cylinder that took longer to fire up, but not 100% sure.
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ANDYC
the 900
the 900

Mechanic
Posts : 699
Location : Windsor

Re: Now not starting!

Post by ANDYC on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 5:11 pm

@skyerae wrote:Took off coils and they are in spec but one of the plug caps is out of spec.



Precisely why I switched to stick coils, much less to go wrong.
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sammythespider
Rossi
Rossi

Posts : 56
Location : Bradford

Re: Now not starting!

Post by sammythespider on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 8:13 pm

Have you tried Halfords easy start, this seems to do away with old fuel problems as it goes straight past the float bowls etc. If you have a spark on the plugs give it a try, have used it on a few bikes with starting problems when left standing, not very high engineering but who knows, sam
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skyerae
Barry Sheene
Barry Sheene

Posts : 97
Location : Deepest darkest Scotland.

Re: Now not starting!

Post by skyerae on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 9:17 pm

Where should I spray this, into the air box? I have a can of Bradex Easy Start that is over three quarters full so more than enough. Never used by myself in anger (YET!!) The fuel is old but it was running on this fuel when she was running the last time. 
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sammythespider
Rossi
Rossi

Posts : 56
Location : Bradford

Re: Now not starting!

Post by sammythespider on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 10:08 pm

Ive never used it on a CB only on a Suzuki GS500, I gave it a blast of about 1 to 2 seconds as near the air intakes to the carbs as I could get , then no choke, used it 3 to 4 times when I had this bake and couldn't start it to good results, if you have a can nothing to lose. Also used it on a Honda Xl185 with kickstart and it helped this, Instructions may be on can, they are on Halfords. Sam
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skyrider
the 900
the 900

Posts : 1730
Location : preston lancs

Re: Now not starting!

Post by skyrider on Fri 06 Jan 2017, 2:22 pm

sometimes vehicles can get addicted to easy start and wont start without it and also listen out for the bang when the engine fires after you have sprayed into the air intake, no way would I use it Neutral
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sammythespider
Rossi
Rossi

Posts : 56
Location : Bradford

Re: Now not starting!

Post by sammythespider on Fri 06 Jan 2017, 2:42 pm

Only used it occasionally in emergencies but never had a bang, but not had that much experience. Had heard that engines can get addicted but was under the impression it was mainly injection models with lamba sensors etc, that can get confused and start metering out fuel incorrectly as the computer builds up a picture of the parameters and starts expecting enriched fuel. Sam
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skyrider
the 900
the 900

Posts : 1730
Location : preston lancs

Re: Now not starting!

Post by skyrider on Fri 06 Jan 2017, 2:52 pm

used to work at a building firm that used old transits and a cf Bedford pickup and we used to put the stuff in them in winter and the bang when they fired was frightening and the trouble was they got that used to it they would only start in the height of summer with it too so you can leave that f*****g stuff in Halfords Evil or Very Mad
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sammythespider
Rossi
Rossi

Posts : 56
Location : Bradford

Re: Now not starting!

Post by sammythespider on Fri 06 Jan 2017, 2:56 pm

Experience is always worth ten time hearsay! Sam
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skyrider
the 900
the 900

Posts : 1730
Location : preston lancs

Re: Now not starting!

Post by skyrider on Fri 06 Jan 2017, 3:03 pm

its a whole lot better to keep your vehicle well serviced than to use that crap, I have never used it in my own vehicles and never will
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skyerae
Barry Sheene
Barry Sheene

Posts : 97
Location : Deepest darkest Scotland.

Re: Now not starting!

Post by skyerae on Fri 06 Jan 2017, 3:41 pm

We used it on a 16 ton forklift at work as the engine was well past it's best, and it would only start after using a complete tin in the air filter. This was whatever the weather and season, not sure if it was addicted to the stuff or if the engine was so worn it needed this to ignite the mixture...........
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wornsprokets
the 900
the 900

Posts : 1163
Location : dublin

Re: Now not starting!

Post by wornsprokets on Fri 06 Jan 2017, 5:22 pm

Is it not called easy start....usually to start low compression engines.... onces used it on mark 1 vw golf with 400k miles....(it was near end for it) also used it on very bad cb1 engine.too.. poping banging...i dont think i like to use it on somthing good....
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skyerae
Barry Sheene
Barry Sheene

Posts : 97
Location : Deepest darkest Scotland.

Re: Now not starting!

Post by skyerae on Sat 07 Jan 2017, 9:04 pm

Replaced the plugs and air filter (as part of the service), and replaced both of the spark plug caps. As one was out of spec and they were both 22 (going on 23 years) old it was prudent to replace both. Checked the readings on the pulse generator coil and it was within spec as well. put the lead on the battery and she chugged away and then started. Happy days again  Very Happy

Checked the bike over and found the left hand indicators not working - opened the switch-gear and a good deal of electrical contact cleaner sorted this out. Then the front brake switch wasn't working so I removed it and used electrical contact cleaner. Then it was working in reverse - the brake light was on without the brake being applied and off when the brake was applied. Ordered a new switch from my new best friends called Fowlers, so hopefully they will arrive on Monday and I can fit it. The bike goes for it's MOT on Monday, it will fail as there is no front brake light switch and I will replace it Monday evening and hopefully get it retested on Tuesday. 

Thanks to all who gave me advice and offered help - it was all appreciated. Get some clean new petrol in her on Wednesday and then she is ready for the new season, roll on Spring time - too cold to use her all the time up here now in Scotland.
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eternally_troubled
Admin
Admin

Awesome!
Posts : 3639
Location : 'ere be fens. (near Cambridge)

Re: Now not starting!

Post by eternally_troubled on Mon 09 Jan 2017, 9:49 am

Glad to you've got it (mainly) fixed.  I suspect more people will start having more of these problems soon - our bike are getting to 'that' age when all the rubber/plastic start to fail and all the electrical connections become non-connections!

Easy-start is useful in certain circumstances (Bradex/Holts or Halfords version) - the reason things seem to get 'addicted' to it is because it covers up a multitude of other starting problem, so when you *stop* using it they all come back to roost and it will *never* start without it.  

It is quite useful for diagnosing fuelling problems and having in the boot of the car 'just in case' (assuming, like me, you have a 29 year-old banger!). You shouldn't need to put loads in unless you are starting a massive diesel that doesn't have any glow-plugs that work...

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