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Project Bandit VVT 400

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Jameshambleton
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Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by Jameshambleton on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 9:56 pm

EDIT: There is a lot of images in this thread so give the page a few moments to fully load. 

Well here is the new project. She is a rare Variable Valve Timed or red top as they're nicknamed for obvious reasons 1998 Jap import. Only one photo is mine the rest I've borrowed from the ad as it was dark and I only got one photo. 










Last edited by Jameshambleton on Wed 26 Oct 2016, 2:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

sullivj
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by sullivj on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 10:31 pm

Impressive box of bits James. 

I'll look forward to seeing your progress. Is this instead of 'the big one', or in addition to?
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by hh_12345 on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 7:21 am

Years ago I almost got a 400 vvt bandit. I have always liked it and I think it is a beautiful motorcycle.

Is the vvt controlled by the oil pressure?
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Jameshambleton
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by Jameshambleton on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 8:25 am

sullivj wrote:Impressive box of bits James. 

I'll look forward to seeing your progress. Is this instead of 'the big one', or in addition to?
Additional to the big-1 and the cb5. This is going to be my project for over the winter to get up and running and then to either pass it onto a family member or to sell it on to a friend. 

hh_12345 wrote:Years ago I almost got a 400 vvt bandit. I have always liked it and I think it is a beautiful motorcycle.

Is the vvt controlled by the oil pressure?
I'm sure it's rev based but I dunno, I know so much about them that I don't even know if it's water or oil cooled. Either way I'm going to have to get researching today.
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by eternally_troubled on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 11:05 am

ooooh. Rare bike porn! Smile

You'll be wanting some kind of service manual for that - no idea how the VVT works. 'The internet' suggests that it might be slightly tricky to setup correctly, but I wouldn't let that put you off!

I'm guessing because half of the important parts are in a box you got it for a suitably reduced price? Smile

I look forward to seeing your thread about fixing it up Smile

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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by Jameshambleton on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 7:56 pm

Well I have several days worth of work to write up so this is going to be a long post with a lot of images so please allow time for them to load in.
 
I’ll start with some background info about the bike, it was imported from japan in 2002 and is a 1997 model with 13.8k km about 8,600 miles. As far as I’m aware it was bought in either June 2005 or March 2006 and then was partly stripped down and the rear subframe was bent so it has a new frame. It was then partly  rebuilt to the stage that I bought it from as the birth of twins got in the way and the bike was put on the way side. So this is where I pick up the story and Andy (will be following the story on this thread so hi =D )
 
On Saturday we went and got the bike in the usual way (shut up @wornsprokets) bike one side and the 3 boxes of parts on the other.
 


Once home I started some uhh starting point photo.
 
I decided to plug the holes at the intake and gave it a little bit of a light wash with a spray can and my fingers as a brush/cloth because I was too lazy to get/find one.
 
I then after doing that decided to see if the engine would turn over. So I tried to remove the (carn’t remember its name) and it wouldn’t budge. So with a bit of persuasion (heat) it then cracked it finally came off. I then tried to turn the engine over and…thankfully the engine wasn’t seized and turned over nicely and this was a massive relief for me.
 
I gave the manifold a quick spray with TFR and that was it really. It'll get its own turn another day as it isn't a priority at the moment.
 
I then moved things swiftly inside and fitted the switch gears, clutch cable and the front master cylinder. I also tried to find how the airbox mounted and this took a lot longer than what it should have. Oh and I removed the rear cowl and cracked a lug on it but in my feeble defence it had already been broken once... oops.
 
After trying all 3 sets of carbs it was as always 3rd time lucky and the last set I tired/remembered about was the best fit.
 
I added engine oil and it seemed to take a lot more than what I expected, I’ve also just realised as I’m typing this that I didn’t change the oil filter… come to think about it I don’t even know where the oil filter goes so I’ll have to look that up.
 
I then added the throttle cables and I thought I’d start on the back end... no innuendos please.
 
This is the wiring the came from the rear indicators into the looms, bare wire and perished rubber insulation.
 
So with a couple of new connectors and crimpers and a tactical and trusty Stanley knife blade everything was sorted and was working well.


I attached the carbs as far as I could get them and attempted to add some petrol into then attempted to start it up and it fired… I saw a flame from cylinder 2 come out of the manifold port and smoke came out the back of the carb… oops. So I knew at this point that the ht leads are in the wrong order. After trying to find out what order they went in I got them in the right order and she sparked into life… briefly. With that is was about 8pm and I went in happy.
 


So this is the end of what I think is day one.

So I guess this is uhh.. day two, so onwards weeeeeeeeee…..

Me and my mum set off for Wigan for a cb400sf nc31 (hear me out with this, ok?) for spares as mine needs a new loom ect and my mums car blew up just 25miles away from home. So after 3 HOURS I was back at home and could start work once again on the bandit.

I rummaged through some boxed and found the callipers, and it didn’t look good, the dust seal was hanging out of one of them, the pistons fully stuck and the pads falling apart with a touch of my finger. I then realised this was a spare so I removed the rubber standard hoses and fitted the braided hoses only to the master cylinder.  
 
I filled the res with brake fluid and started pumping away and the lever wouldn’t pull back toward the bar then **crack** and it started moving. The lever would pull back to the bar and then would only move back so far so I decided to leave it overnight and see if the brake fluid would change anything since it has been dry for so long. I then removed the lever and coated everything in lm2 grease and everything works smoothly as it should. 
 
I decided to do a test fit of the airbox so I unplugged a few wires to get it in without catching anything.
 

So I moved on from this and decided to attempt to start the bike once again. And it didn’t start I tried and tried different amounts of choke but it just wasn’t having it. After trying various things I decided to check the spark, no spark… eek but it was working yesterday. I must have spent 2-3hours on this. After checking every connection on the bike I decided the only thing I changed was the air box so I removed it and there was a 2 pin wire that was unplugged that was hiding along the underside of the frame plugged it in and tried again and she started. Called it a night and went to bed. 


Last edited by Jameshambleton on Tue 25 Oct 2016, 9:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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wornsprokets
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by wornsprokets on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 9:48 pm

Great write up james..u really  do get stuck in, how do u get the time for these projects...keep up great work at this rate u mite need a bigger should i say it horsebox Smile
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by Jameshambleton on Mon 24 Oct 2016, 11:16 pm

wornsprokets wrote:Great write up james..u really  do get stuck in, how do u get the time for these projects...keep up great work at this rate u mite need a bigger should i say it horsebox Smile

Didn't even write up what I've done today yet as I've got a headache (had it for 5 hours) from spray paint thinners as my mum has no idea how to spray things properly as it's "craft paint" and it's "different" and was going to do it in the kitchen but that's another story. I've found out about a local guy who does 2k painting and he's good and cheap so a few parts will be getting painted in the future. I've decided after I've got the carbs balanced and the bike running without choke I'm going to strip it right down to the frame and then get parts cleaned up ect.

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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by sullivj on Tue 25 Oct 2016, 9:12 am

Nice write up James. Glad you got her to fire up.
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by Jameshambleton on Tue 25 Oct 2016, 9:37 am

Onto urm yesterday. 
The carbs wouldn't stay seated in the inlet rubbers presumably because of how hard they've become. I coated them with grease and the metal parts of the carbs a day or so prior I just forgot that I did it. I tried the carbs again to seat them and one popped in fully but the others didn't, I tried more grease and it wasn't having it. In the end I got a 28mm socket I think it was and used that to bend the rubber inlets. I did it in an oval kind shape easing out one side of the rubber at a time. A photo would help me describe this more but anyway. I attempted to refit the carbs and they semi-seated. I then sat on the frame and basically used my legs and pulled against the bars and they popped in. 

I found out (finally) where the clutch cable goes so I removed the nuts and the rubber gator on the end and fitted it in the sprocket cover. Not too sure why it looks so mucky in the photo as I'd just cleaned it. 

Next was the tank and oh my... apart from the scrates it didn't seem too bad then I noticed a big dent in the rear of it and a tiny ding in the side that's small enough not to notice but once you had ugh.. Any how a simple respray should sort this out right? Wrong! If you look closely the paint is a metallic one and there is blue speckles throughout, it looks like dust but it's not. You can see it more clearly on the top left of the image.

Full high res link 
  https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/14856072_664465940394355_6739502835589138139_o.jpg

I knew the tank was rusty inside from looking through the filler cap so I put in some petrol and give it a slosh about. I then removed the fuel gauge and a load of stuff that had the texture of wet sand, see the black part, yeah that bit.

I then poured the contents of the tank out and well all the orange is rust.

I tapped the fuel gauge on the floor a few times and then a load of stuff came out and left this hole, so I left that for a bit.

I started quick airing the tank so with the petrol cap open and the fuel gauge removed I got the hair dryer out and soon everything was dry. 



These are the photos from inside of the tank, so with nothing more to do with that I went back to the petrol gauge and decided well it's more than likely had it so why not rip the rest of the casing off. So I did and it looked like this. All the wires are intact so I might clean it up and re-use it if possible.

I was talking to me neighbour after this and he said that if you wash some small gravel with petrol you can then put that in the tank and shake it and it'll bring the rust off so it'll just need chemically resealing after that. He also told me about a local person who does spraying with 2K paint on the cheap so I'm starting to make a list of things that I want doing.  Twisted Evil

I went back in and decided to put some water in the cooling system since I was going to be running the bike. She ran fine with the choke but as soon as you remove it or touch the throttle she died so I'm thinking there is an air leak or the fuel mixture isn't right so the carbs will be getting looked at soon. I also got branded on my wrist by the hot exhaust so I'm now calling her "The Brandit"
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by hh_12345 on Tue 25 Oct 2016, 10:19 am

Jameshambleton wrote:
I was talking to me neighbour after this and he said that if you wash some small gravel with petrol you can then put that in the tank and shake it and it'll bring the rust off so it'll just need chemically resealing after that.







The tank on my cb was also very rusty. I think vinegar can be used with small metal bits - nuts or bolts inside the tank to remove some rust.

It takes time though and doesnt fully remove the rust so eventually I desided to buy a used rustfree tank.

Here's some info on rusty tanks
http://www.dansmc.com/gastank.htm
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by eternally_troubled on Wed 26 Oct 2016, 9:23 am

Yes, you can use gravel, ball bearings or similar to remove rust as your neighbour said and, yes, it will need sealing with some kind of tank sealer afterwards. Most of these tank sealers involve sloshing some kind of gunk around the tank to make sure everything is coated and then pouring it out - anyway, I'd follow whatever instructions come with it.

That paintwork will look better when polished properly, despite the dents and scratches Smile

If you are going to get it resprayed then all that clear will have to be sanded back to remove the scratches, plus the dents will have to be filled. Are you thinking of matching the colour or are you going for a different one?
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by Jameshambleton on Wed 26 Oct 2016, 11:54 am

There is paint that has been chipped off and the outside and it has some rust spots, I also found another slight dent. So it'll need respraying regardless at this point so I'm going to be keeping an eye out for another tank, mine has a fuel gauge so I can't use tanks off other models and the other models have different mounting points as well as not having a fuel gauge. It'll be a while before she's ready but then again I didn't get this as a quick project. 

I'm going to be keeping the original colour as keeping it as standard as possible apart from messing with the carbs (that I've never done before) so that'll be a learning curve as will balancing the carbs need to get some new rubber hoses for my balancing gauges too. 

 I've also found out last night through the world of facebook there is a place not far from me that does vapour blasting, not too sure on their prices mind but I'll be getting the engine rocker cover blasted and then I'll either get it powder coated or 2k sprayed.
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by ceejay on Tue 01 Nov 2016, 3:37 pm

The 'Slosh' tank sealant stuff recommended on here is still not having a negative side effects many miles on and I can't see how my tank could rust again with that stuff in there which is nice. It was a bit of a long process to do because there is a lot of waiting for the tank to dry out after each step but given you have the time anyway it could be an option for you... I just followed the instructions that came with it which involved shaking some nuts and bolts around inside the tank at one point.

Link to thread here and I'm about to add another bit to it that I forgot to mention reading back now...

http://www.cb500club.net/t3727-rust-in-tank-what-to-do?highlight=rust+tank
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by Jameshambleton on Tue 01 Nov 2016, 6:23 pm

ceejay wrote:The 'Slosh' tank sealant stuff recommended on here is still not having a negative side effects many miles on and I can't see how my tank could rust again with that stuff in there which is nice. It was a bit of a long process to do because there is a lot of waiting for the tank to dry out after each step but given you have the time anyway it could be an option for you... I just followed the instructions that came with it which involved shaking some nuts and bolts around inside the tank at one point.

Link to thread here and I'm about to add another bit to it that I forgot to mention reading back now...

http://www.cb500club.net/t3727-rust-in-tank-what-to-do?highlight=rust+tank

Thanks for that, funny enough that topic was already in my next tab to read, cheers!
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by Jameshambleton on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 7:42 pm

A little bit more progress has been made. I've drained the water that I had put in the cooling system since it's water cooled and I wanted to start the engine. I found that some green and chunky stuff came out when I dropped the water so I'm presuming some old coolant has been living in there. I finally figured out which bracket and which one of the 3 rads actually fit. So with that done I put in some antifreeze and water roughly at a 50/50mix so there is about half of the overall coolant in the bike. I'm pretty lucky as 2 days later (today) we had freezing temps and snow so I did it just in time. 

I've since removed the carbs and opened up and they're clean all the way through and the diaphragms are all intact so that's a relief. I'll be refitting the throttle cables and choke cables at some point and then trying to start the bike again and see if I can get it to idle without needing any choke. 

I've tried moving the idle screw and it seems to do nothing at all to the engine speed so I'm thinking there is an airleak somewhere but as of yet I've not managed to check, I've also thought about the air/fuel mixture screw but as of yet I've not really found anything. 

I'm currently undecided with tyres as these are from 02 and 04 IIRC so they are hard as owt and they're a 110/70/17 and a 150/70/17 so I'm thinking either Maxxis Promaxx or Metzeler Lasertec's as tyres as they're decent and cheap. 

I've polished my tank and it's come up great with hardly any visible signs of the scrates that once were there. There is a big dent at the back or it though so I'm not too sure what to do about it. Would a local bodyshop be able to pull the dent out? I've heard about people using compressed air but I'm not sure I'd be about to do this myself. 

Currently I'm still undecided if I'm going to pass this bike onto a family member and let them use it, Keep it myself and sell on my cb400, or sell on this bike and my cb400.
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by eternally_troubled on Thu 10 Nov 2016, 9:22 am

Jameshambleton wrote:
I've polished my tank and it's come up great with hardly any visible signs of the scrapes that once were there. There is a big dent at the back or it though so I'm not too sure what to do about it. Would a local body-shop be able to pull the dent out? I've heard about people using compressed air but I'm not sure I'd be about to do this myself. 

I'm glad to hear it polished up well. Shame about the dent. There are some videos on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkbFhPrJ14w

Sadly probably not very helpful.

It's certainly worth taking to a pro just to see what they say. If you end up keeping the bike yourself then you could just use it with the dent while you are looking on ebay etc for a 'new' tank, though I fear that tanks for VVT400 bandits in your colour may be a bit like hens teeth.

A good body-shop could certainly fill it and respray but I'd be concerned about the colour match, so you might want to either do the whole thing or get them to do you a sample first for comparison with the rest of the bodywork.

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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by Jameshambleton on Tue 15 Nov 2016, 10:31 pm

Well I'd best post a little update while I remember.

I've got a quote for fixing the dents in the tank at a whopping £152!  Shocked This is actually reshaping the metal and not just filling it with filler so it might be worth it, at the moment it's getting left. 

I've put the carbs and stuff and now the bike won't start at all, not even a hint at firing, so I'll have to take the carbs back out at some point and check every screw was tightened up. bugga... infact that reminds me the battery has been on charge for the last few days should unplug it at some point since I flattened the battery trying to start it. 

I removed the front wheel and forks, forks got stuck so they wouldn't come out of the yokes so a hammer had to be used and yes all the bolts were fully removed. I also found the one of the bolts on the top yoke has cracked so a new top yoke is needed. 

Forks are going to be rebuilt with new seals and bushs. Old fork oil will be reused as the oil is still good as the last owner changed the oil in them and the bike will have done less than a mile since that was done (at least need pushed never mind under its own power as it has no chain).
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by eternally_troubled on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 7:49 am

Do you know if your VVT 400 has the same frame as a 'normal' bandit 400? Might make finding a top yolk easier.
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by Jameshambleton on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 8:08 pm

Suppose I better update some of my progress.
 
Here are the pictures that I was supposed to be add to the previous post.
 
 
 


So this weekend I nipped up to AMR at Manor Cafe/farm. I managed to find a 120/70/17 Pirelli Diablo Rosso in their used tyre section so I got it! Took my loose rim there and they fitted it £30 including the tyre cost and it didn't even require balancing they checked on the machine 3 times just to be sure. Anyway they fitted it the wrong way round but that's easily done when it's a loose rim and there is no rotation direction on the discs. They also fitted a new valve which was the main reason for changing the tyre so soon as the valve rubber was so old that it leaked air.
 
I couldn't go on Sunday as they were shut so I attempted a start on the front forks, didn't go well. Both of the damper bolts were spinning and I could get them out but I drained the oil anyway horrible looking stuff. Some grey black looking stuff, pretty sure there was some water in there too.
 
I went back today and took the tyre and forks, got some funny looks on the way back, dunno why.
 
They impacted the bolts loose for me and changed the tyre direction for me. While I was there I got some new fork seals for the bandit and the cb400sf.
 
Came home and I started making a cuppa start on the forks. I started stripping down the forks, a task that I have done many times before.
 
"How hard can it be" "DON'T SAY THAT!!!"
 
 
I removed the spring and the spacer. And started the usual way of parting the fork, sadly the fork thought it would be funny leaving both the bush's, washer and seal all in the fork leg.   Mad

I also forgot to add that the sirclips are rusty and completly different sizes when removed from the forks so I'll have to get some new ones of those too. 
 
The other came out fine though
 
And a quick comparison for uhh, reasons.
 
I tried cutting the seal with a Stanley knife to no affect.  Anyway I finally got my blow torch to work right at last so why not use it!
 
With the seal glowing nice and red all the way around I took the screw driver to it again and it popped out, along with the washer! So who wants crispy seal, ouch sounds painful. 
 
Next up was the bush in the interference fit, and it wasn’t going anywhere fast.
 
You can tell where this is going…
 
There was some oil between the bush and the fork leg and it started boiling so I knew there was now a nice lubricated gap. I got the screwdriver and drove it out in steps the same way you do with head bearings.
 
So it popped out, right across the worktop and under my tool box, it was busy fizzling and popping and I thought it was melting the worktop and setting fire to something so I shifted my tool box and thankfully there was no damage and it was in fact oil and a bit of oil that it was making boil.


I’ve fitted the new seals but somehow I’ve lost one of the damper rod bolts, the bush that was in the fork leg is unusable so I’m waiting until I’ve got a new pair before I fully reassemble them.
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by wornsprokets on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 9:55 pm

You certainly keep your self busy james with all your projects...how do you get the time Smile
Super 4 looks good...mudguard be handy Very Happy
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by Jameshambleton on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 10:58 pm

wornsprokets wrote:You certainly keep your self busy james with all your projects...how do you get the time Smile
Super 4 looks good...mudguard be handy Very Happy

Superfour had it's front end off Sunday evening (hence the missing mudguard), both fork seals have gone so they were leaking oil all over. So I've drained the oil out of them as I need at least one working oil free brake disc so now I have 2 oil free discs. I got the new seals this morning as I said in the post above and they'll be getting done this weekend with getting the fork oil, switchgear changed and the electrics of the clocks changed ready for the MOT in 2 weeks time. 

Front brake lever should be here tomorrow for my cb5 so that'll be good when that's back on the road.
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by Jameshambleton on Fri 02 Dec 2016, 11:09 pm

Well I was going to be getting the exhaust fitted who guess who ordered 20 bolts before realising that he had read part number 3 and not 2 of the microfiche... yup.

So instead I went and decided to clean the headers, so out came the wirewool and the autosol, nice and smooth but not very good looking.

I went and asked for some advice so I got some harpic bog cleaner x10 strength and my word I watched the pipe clean itself in seconds, actual seconds, I doubt I'll be using autosol anymore to be honest. 

My lower fork bush's came today so I got the forks rebuilt without the circlip or the dust seals. Simply because I forgot to order them and I wanted the bike to been back to a rolling chassis. 

I got a photo of the front wheel since for some reason I didn't have one. 

A photo of it all back together. 

Before and after of the end can. 


I've also refitted the rear light, cowl and seat as well as putting the battery further down in its compartment so it's out of the way. I've turned the bike around and I've refitted the chain guard to prevent it from getting damaged from it laying about and the front sprocket cover/clutch. I've had another look at the boxes of nuts and bolts and I have no idea with any of them as most aren't even from my bike so my microfiche and my digital caliper are going to be my friends for a while.
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by eternally_troubled on Sat 03 Dec 2016, 12:48 pm

Jameshambleton wrote:
I went and asked for some advice so I got some harpic bog cleaner x10 strength and my word I watched the pipe clean itself in seconds, actual seconds, I doubt I'll be using autosol anymore to be honest. 

I'm pretty sure that is just acid of some kind... so you don't want to use it too often or you'll have no pipes left!

It is quite amazing how quickly it get the grot off....


A photo of it all back together. 

Might just be me but I can't see any photo there.
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Re: Project Bandit VVT 400

Post by Jameshambleton on Sat 03 Dec 2016, 7:29 pm

Yeah my bad, my computer needed to restart so I just posted the post without adding the images, I'll add those in a minute with todays progress 
eternally_troubled wrote:
Jameshambleton wrote:
I went and asked for some advice so I got some harpic bog cleaner x10 strength and my word I watched the pipe clean itself in seconds, actual seconds, I doubt I'll be using autosol anymore to be honest. 

I'm pretty sure that is just acid of some kind... so you don't want to use it too often or you'll have no pipes left!  

It is quite amazing how quickly it get the grot off....


A photo of it all back together. 

Might just be me but I can't see any photo there.

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