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let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

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trevor machine
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let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by trevor machine on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 12:13 pm

I'm nominating part # 61101-MY5-860 as the most neglected bit of the Honda CB500. Its functionality might be debated - an integral part of the way the front half of the bike handles OR a fairly useless piece of mild steel that rots away quietly over the years without anyone ever really noticing.

Probably more of the latter to be fair - but then again, it must have some stabilising effect on front end forces, particularly during hard cornering.

Yes that's right - I'm talking about the good ol' "PLATE, FR. FENDER". Whuh?? I personally would probably refer to it as the front mudguard brace. Positioned beneath the mudguard way out of sight, not even locatable by probing fingers unless fully removed, this poor bit of metal soon starts to feel the elements.

I decided to whip mine off today - a piss easy job - and inspect the bugger, having greased it this time last year (NB without removing it - meaning I hadn't got at the top side of it - stupid trevor!!). Well, it's survived okay - it's got a fair amount of rigidity left in it, and with a bit of diligent prep, a coat of hammerite on both sides, and then a layer of thick grease (ditto), it will probably outlive other bits of the bike.

Here's how I prep'd it - wire brush / white spirit / scourer. At this point it was looking fairly good - but my thumbnail was still gouging small amounts of grease off the side I'd previously had a go at weather-proofing. So I took it into the kitchen and held it over the stove - both sides. Then repeated the process.

Not ideal - but I can't be arsed with vicing it and dremel wire brush attachments. Pretty confident this will last well.

Btw - dug out my old MOTs for the bike yesterday and wondered all over again at the weird up and down mileages over the last decade:

2007 - 37158
2008 - 48031
2012 (!!) - 25600
2013 - 27500
2014 - 31486
2015 - 44884
2016 - 50425

So the bike's led a life. Looks like a crash back in 2008 that took the clocks out (incidentally the bars are slightly bent). I suppose the "correct" mileage is somewhere closer to 73,000. Not sure what it was doing in its lost years from 2009 to 2011 - probably convalescing in someone's garage.

Anyway, it's come to a decent home now - gets used every dry day, and some damp ones. Currently doing about a thousand miles a month - gets oil every 2k, so nice short intervals. Runs well - really well, tbh. Rear Showas are a bit spongy even on max pre-load, but I can get on with 'em. Front suspension's great. Really like it. I feel like I know exactly what it's going to do, underdamping wise etc.

It does make some clunking noises which I think are clutch related if it stands for more than a few days. So it relishes regular use. Finish is good. No corrosion apart from on the aforementioned part # 61101-MY5-860 - oh and the centre stand, which I've sorted now. Only slight let down is the side stand which has play in it.

But yes - I do like this bike a lot. More than my much newer, mintier CB500. That okay yeah, feels a lot fresher and tighter. But yet which somehow hasn't got the personality of the old slogger. It'll stand a thrashing as well - doesn't mind a good gallop from time to time, but being honest it is happiest at legal speeds. Just bumbling along, banging and belching on its overrun, then growling aloud as it gets up to 5k. FUN!!

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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by sullivj on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 6:33 pm

I have been told that the brace is out of stock now.  All the more reason to look after it!
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trevor machine
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by trevor machine on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 6:37 pm

I think there is one here (for £30 - bit dear, that - imo):

http://www.cmsnl.com/products/plate-frfender_61101my5860/#.WAEXqST4XZ0
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by Jameshambleton on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 8:22 pm

I'm sure it's only there to keep;
1. The mudguard securing bolts to screw into
2. To keep the fork legs from twisting round when you take the front axle bolt out.  
3. Stop the mud guard from flexing as you ride along
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by Alvi on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 9:51 pm

Well mine got similar treatment when I stripped & rebuilt the bike a acouple of year ago - wire brushed, zinc primer then hammerite. Should be good for another 20 years  Wink
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by trevor machine on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 9:49 am

@Jameshambleton wrote:I'm sure it's only there to keep;
1. The mudguard securing bolts to screw into
2. To keep the fork legs from twisting round when you take the front axle bolt out.  
3. Stop the mud guard from flexing as you ride along

1 and 3 seem a bit inconsequential - but 2 is a bit more useful, and a reason that hadn't occurred to me.

Out of interest James, what do you think the most neglected part of the bike is? I mentioned the mudguard brace cos it's a prime example of out of sight out of mind. And can easily deteriorate if ignored.
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by eternally_troubled on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 11:03 am

It is to stop the mudguard flexing and cracking - if the plastic mudguard was the ONLY thing holding the two forks legs together (other than the axle bolt thing) then it would take the brunt of imbalance between the two forks - this wouldn't be good.

So, in effect, it is a fork brace, but only a minor one. In the past the mudguard would have been made of metal, so it would have probably been less necessary.

I've never tried riding a CB500 without a mudguard, it might be interesting to see if it made any difference (I suspect it wouldn't!).
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liverpool_f_
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by liverpool_f_ on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 3:18 pm

This is a very interesting point. I have heard that older bikes with metal mud guards really do require them to be present for proper handling. Removing them makes a huge difference apparently. I didn't even know he CB had one underneath. Knowing my bike it is probably missing.
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by Beresford on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 4:28 pm

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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by trevor machine on Sun 16 Oct 2016, 11:42 am

@liverpool_f_ wrote:This is a very interesting point. I have heard that older bikes with metal mud guards really do require them to be present for proper handling. Removing them makes a huge difference apparently. I didn't even know he CB had one underneath. Knowing my bike it is probably missing.

My one was actually a bit bent and warped - more evidence of shenanigans with this bike, by which I mean crashes and collisions.

Oh also and because it's relevant to my digression in the OP, I remembered all over again that my bike's engine number doesn't match the log book. So not only have I got an up and down mileages on the old MOTs, but it seems that even the adjusted estimation of true mileage (at 75k) is likely to be inaccurate, given that it seems to have had a lump swap at some point. Damn bike's the proverbial ship of Theseus (i.e. Trigger's broom). Rides pretty well considering - especially if you ignore the occasional and slight head shakes. ; - )
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by eternally_troubled on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 7:35 am

@trevor machine wrote:

My one was actually a bit bent and warped - more evidence of shenanigans with this bike, by which I mean crashes and collisions.


It's certainly one of the first bits that's going to 'feel the strain' of any front end shenanigan.

@trevor machine wrote:

Oh also and because it's relevant to my digression in the OP, I remembered all over again that my bike's engine number doesn't match the log book. So not only have I got an up and down mileages on the old MOTs, but it seems that even the adjusted estimation of true mileage (at 75k) is likely to be inaccurate, given that it seems to have had a lump swap at some point. Damn bike's the proverbial ship of Theseus (i.e. Trigger's broom). Rides pretty well considering - especially if you ignore the occasional and slight head shakes. ; - )

Even though it's of little consequence you should get this fixed (if only for your own peace of mind). It's not as bad as my H100: the frame number on the V5 was wrong - I think it had never been recorded correctly in the first place (back in 1986 when it was new!) but it took 20 or 30 years for anyone to notice!
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by jerryfudd on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 1:53 pm

I managed to buy a new one of these when restoring the CB from my local dealer - which I then got powder coated to protect it from the elements and on hearing that they were becoming hard to come by went straight back and bought another which is now sitting on the spares shelf Very Happy
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by trevor machine on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 3:21 pm

Hoarder!!
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by jerryfudd on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 3:35 pm

@trevor machine wrote:Hoarder!!



damn right, i'm into the CB for the long haul - hopefully one day it'll be worth what i've put into it Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by Jameshambleton on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 4:15 pm

@jerryfudd wrote:

@trevor machine wrote:Hoarder!!

damn right, i'm into the CB for the long haul - hopefully one day it'll be worth what i've put into it Laughing Laughing Laughing

Give it about 40 years and it might be worth half of what you've put into it Wink
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by jerryfudd on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 4:29 pm

@Jameshambleton wrote:
@jerryfudd wrote:

@trevor machine wrote:Hoarder!!

damn right, i'm into the CB for the long haul - hopefully one day it'll be worth what i've put into it Laughing Laughing Laughing

Give it about 40 years and it might be worth half of what you've put into it Wink

it's a CB so should still be running Smile
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by liverpool_f_ on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 9:18 am

I think the only reason these parts are getting hard to come by is because they are all at Jerryfudds house!
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by jerryfudd on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 9:45 am

@liverpool_f_ wrote:I think the only reason these parts are getting hard to come by is because they are all at Jerryfudds house!

ha, possibly..... though that's the only spare i have the rest of the uk and beyond stock is on the bike Smile
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by jerryfudd on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 3:23 pm

I was sitting back at work thinking about this thread (while working of course) and you know what they say - you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink. post below although doesn't seem to list the year is 2years old......

http://www.cb500club.net/t3088-don-t-break-your-fender

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fancy that, no replies Laughing
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by trevor machine on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 4:35 pm

@jerryfudd wrote:I was sitting back at work thinking about this thread (while working of course) and you know what they say - you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink. post below although doesn't seem to list the year is 2years old......

http://www.cb500club.net/t3088-don-t-break-your-fender

Rolling Eyes

fancy that, no replies Laughing

huh - waaayyy ahead of the curve, as we say in the department of contemporary marketing ; - )
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by eternally_troubled on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 5:54 pm

@jerryfudd wrote:I was sitting back at work thinking about this thread (while working of course) and you know what they say - you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink. post below although doesn't seem to list the year is 2years old......

http://www.cb500club.net/t3088-don-t-break-your-fender

:roll:

fancy that, no replies :lol:

Definitely ahead of the curve :)

When I look at your old post I see this: ' Don't Break Your Fender! Post by jerryfudd on Fri 17 Oct 2014 - 12:26'

As you can see I get a year in my date: I'm pretty sure that you can control this in your personal forum settings - there is a date format in there somewhere.
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by jerryfudd on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 8:03 pm

i went to a thundersport race some time ago and there was some talk about getting some made..... maybe tricky or andyc know more as i haven't been on the racing forum in a long long time.
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by eternally_troubled on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 7:35 am

@jerryfudd wrote:i went to a thundersport race some time ago and there was some talk about getting some made..... maybe tricky or andyc know more as i haven't been on the racing forum in a long long time.

This is certainly possible - it is a bent bit of steel with holes in it! Whether anyone has done it...
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by trevor machine on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 9:55 am

@jerryfudd wrote:i went to a thundersport race some time ago and there was some talk about getting some made..... maybe tricky or andyc know more as i haven't been on the racing forum in a long long time.





This is one of the things I was wondering when I wrote the OP - what would the racing people be doing about this part. The hardest bit, in trying to hand fabricate one, would be getting those four lugs (they're not "lugs" - I just mean the female parts for the fastening bolts) welded on. Assuming you could bend and hammer out a flat piece of mild steel to roughly the right sort of curvy shape. Then again, would it be possible to use another method and just drill holes in the fashioned plate and then use washers? I think this would be difficult because it's so hard to reach behind  i.e. up and underneath the mudguard once it's in place and try and thread bolts onto nuts etc. So it would seem that some welding might be required. *gulp*

Crazy that an otherwise mechanically sound, eminently usable bike could be stymied by such an ostensibly inconsequential little part. `
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Re: let's hear it for part # 61101-MY5-860

Post by eternally_troubled on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 2:51 pm

@trevor machine wrote:
@jerryfudd wrote:i went to a thundersport race some time ago and there was some talk about getting some made..... maybe tricky or andyc know more as i haven't been on the racing forum in a long long time.






This is one of the things I was wondering when I wrote the OP - what would the racing people be doing about this part. The hardest bit, in trying to hand fabricate one, would be getting those four lugs (they're not "lugs" - I just mean the female parts for the fastening bolts) welded on. Assuming you could bend and hammer out a flat piece of mild steel to roughly the right sort of curvy shape. Then again, would it be possible to use another method and just drill holes in the fashioned plate and then use washers? I think this would be difficult because it's so hard to reach behind  i.e. up and underneath the mudguard once it's in place and try and thread bolts onto nuts etc. So it would seem that some welding might be required. *gulp*

Crazy that an otherwise mechanically sound, eminently usable bike could be stymied by such an ostensibly inconsequential little part. `

It's not a very high stress part in the grand scheme of things, so the welding doesn't have to be that good, so I am sure you could find someone to do it :)

or (possibly better) would it be possible, if the correct size of hole was made, to tap a thread into the piece of metal? No 'welded nut' would then be required...

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