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All sorts.

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Grarea
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All sorts.

Post by Grarea on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 10:05 am

Hi guys,
I want to get my bike running happily.
It might be running fine, but I have no comparisons.

I think that it is running unevenly.
So I would imagine that a carb balance would be of help just to start with. 

I want to try a stock exhaust on it as I seem to be a lot of noise for the amount of go.
It might be as good as it gets, like I say, no comparison. I want to see how it compares with the quiet exhaust.

So, someone has explained that it might or might not have had the jets redone when the exhaust was changed.

Also I see that shims and valve clearances are a 'thing'.

So, the things I need to consider are, exhaust, jets, carb balancing, valve clearances.
Was also wondering about the K&N air filters. They seem to make a difference.
This will take a little while and be one job at a time.
I want it to be a happy CB. 
I need to play with it to learn it and I don't have any idea what has been done to it in the past.


Questions:
1) Is there anything else I need to think about?
2) Can someone point me in the right direction of vacuum gauges for the twin? There was a link but they have sold out.
3) Is it possible to find out what jets I have?
4) Am I right in thinking it is a bit of a balance between all of the above?
5) What order should I do these things?
I was thinking balance the carbs first. I am thinking that changes don't affect the balanced carbs.
Then think jets and exhaust.
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liverpool_f_
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Re: All sorts.

Post by liverpool_f_ on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 10:48 am

If you have done all the service items like oil and filter, air filter and sub filter and anything else like chain and sprockets that may need done then carb balancing would be a good place to start if you think it is running a bit rough. K and N filters have a higher flow rate so they actually unbalance the air fuel mixture if the jetting isn't changed. The bike will actually perform better with the standard filter if you are not adjusting the stock jetting etc. Changing the exhaust will make a big difference to volume and vibrations. I have just changed mine from stock to aftermarket and difference is very noticeable.
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eternally_troubled
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Re: All sorts.

Post by eternally_troubled on Sun 02 Oct 2016, 12:36 pm

@Grarea wrote:
Questions:
1) Is there anything else I need to think about?
2) Can someone point me in the right direction of vacuum gauges for the twin? There was a link but they have sold out.
3) Is it possible to find out what jets I have?
4) Am I right in thinking it is a bit of a balance between all of the above?
5) What order should I do these things?
I was thinking balance the carbs first. I am thinking that changes don't affect the balanced carbs.
Then think jets and exhaust.


1)  There is always something else :)  Spark plugs might be worth a look/change while you have the tank off (assuming you haven't done that already).  Iridium ones do work well and seem to last a long time.

2) If you are likely to ever own another motorcycle that needs carb/throttle body balancing then invest in one of these:  http://www.carbtune.co.uk/.  Expensive but worth it.

You can get cheaper things from ebay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Motorcycle-Carb-Carburettor-Vacuum-Balancer-Gauge-2-3-4-Cylinder-Gauges-Kit-/301732926015?hash=item4640af123f:g:uaQAAOSw1XdUYMmR

If you are really skint and like DIY you can make a manometer which will allow you to do the same thing, here is an example, if you google 'carb tuning manometer' you will get more:

http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/33-tune-up/27587-diy-home-made-carburetor-synchronizer-manometer.html

3) Jets often have very small numbers engraved on them for identification purposes:  the only way to find out what jets you have is to take the carbs off, take them apart, remove the jets and have a look.  Probably not worth doing unless you have done everything else (including having a ride on a different (working!) CB500).

4) Yes, it could be any or all of these things and other things too! (I know that doesn't help...)

5) I would do the easiest/cheapest things first i.e. leave the valve clearances 'til last. You will need to do them at some point (they are a periodic service thing), but it doesn't have to be now :)

I'm guessing that you've been doing the routine servicing as required?


I currently have a Fuel exhaust - before that I had a stock exhaust. The stock exhaust was definitely quieter and maybe caused less vibrations but there wasn't much in it. The extra noise from the exhaust could just be masking the real problem (if there is one).

I'd suggest that if you want to try the standard end-can you do just that: you'll need to get a second-hand one from ebay or a breakers. *I* would try and get a cheap, cosmetically challenged one and then if I wanted to keep it I would paint it with exhaust paint, but that's just me. You will need one of these (or similar): http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXHAUST-REAR-SILENCER-SEAL-GASKET-HONDA-CB500-/160346958301?hash=item25556c69dd:g:I7YAAMXQfFJRRg4P

Anyway, I'd certainly suggest trying to get a ride on another CB500 to see what it is like, might put your mind at rest.



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Grarea
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Re: All sorts.

Post by Grarea on Sun 02 Oct 2016, 1:14 pm

Excellent stuff.
Thanks for that.
I have been doing stuff and generally it is feeling happier and happier.
The exhaust thing is more a db thing through the little villages really.
Trying another CB500 sounds like a good plan, I like it.
I don't think that there is anything particularly wrong, just want it to be running happily.
Difficult without the comparison as you say.
Also I don't know what has and hasn't been done, so am kind of just working my way through the list.
I shall leave the valve clearances for now. 


Update:
Yes, I have changed the spark plugs. That improved things a bit for sure.

I did consider making a manometer myself. I decided that i would want to use it again
and got lazy and bought one.  Smile
It was a little bit out but not much. Anyway, that has definitely improved the vibrations.
It has also  improved pick up by a definite percentage. Rather a nice thing to do.
An observation:
The vibration seems to have moved to the feet. (It isn't bad, I am not saying it is a problem, just chatting)
I have either removed the main vibration and now notice it in my feet, or I altered the pitch 
so that it has moved to the pegs  Smile.
Anyway, pretty pleased having balanced the carbs. Mucho improvemento. 

Now I have got an old standard end can and have ordered the gasket.
(Thanks Liverpoolf)
I am looking forward to trying that out.

The jets.
Thanks for that.
I am just curious as to what I have really. 
Just to know whether they were changed when the end can was changed.
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Re: All sorts.

Post by eternally_troubled on Sat 08 Oct 2016, 10:19 am

@Grarea wrote:
The jets.
Thanks for that.
I am just curious as to what I have really. 
Just to know whether they were changed when the end can was changed.

I bet they were not changed - it's quite easy to slap on a new can, it's difficult to change the jets, plus you have to pick the right ones!
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Grarea
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Re: All sorts.

Post by Grarea on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 8:33 am

So, we have changed the exhaust, got pillion pegs, changed for indicators that people can see.
Then used better fuel, changed sparks, balanced carbs, changed oil, changed air filters.

Each time I do something, things get a bit smoother.

Was toying with  cleaning the carbs next.
There were bits missing from the sub filter.
There is a hint of a gasket leak on the side of a carb.
And, well, it can't be a bad thing to do can it?
I doubt it has ever been done. As I go through, I am not sure much has been done apart from painting everything (including the pipes and tubes)

I put some carb cleaner through and that improved things slightly as well.

So, I was thinking about it and read this:
http://www.cb500club.net/t1740-2002-cb-500s-slow-running-problems
Sounds like the same thing.

Anyway, I am thinking that I need this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Carburettor-Repair-Kit-Honda-CB-500-SW-Twin-1998-/152168485659?hash=item236df2d31b:g:OOEAAOSwbsBXiPQN
Do you agree or do you recommend somewhere else?

Anything else I should do while I am at it?
I was just going to give it a clean, change the gaskets, make sure the jets are clear type thing.
See if there is debris in the float bowl.

Just thought, is there a stock setting for the mixture screws or is that adjusted to suit?

Even with the stock exhaust it pops occasionally.
From what I understand that means it is running a bit lean. Is that right?
I shan't adjust the mix until I have cleaned out as that might solve it.
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liverpool_f_
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Re: All sorts.

Post by liverpool_f_ on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 6:40 pm

Popping can mean to rich or to lean. Too lean, when you shut off the throttle at higher RPM's, the secondary jets stop supplying fuel. The idle jet is passing an insufficient amount of fuel for any combustion to take place, so that idle fuel passes straight through unburnt and pops in the exhaust. Too rich mean that all of the fuel is not burnt in the combustion process so that excess then passes through into the exhaust and pops.
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Grarea
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Re: All sorts.

Post by Grarea on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 7:52 pm

OK, thanks for that.
I could only find stuff that was saying too lean.
I always thought it must be too rich, I never did understand why too lean did it.
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Re: All sorts.

Post by eternally_troubled on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 6:22 pm

That carb kit *might* help - it certainly won't do any harm (assuming you put the bits in the correct place!) as the rubber bits in the carbs have been for for a long time.
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Grarea
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Re: All sorts.

Post by Grarea on Thu 26 Jan 2017, 12:03 pm

Well, sorting those exhaust gaskets and scraping out that exhaust paste has made quite a difference.
It is quieter, smoother, more powerful. 
I don't know how much of it is psychological, but i was thinking that slower cornering wasn't as good down to it running a bit rough. The power delivery definitely wasn't smooth.
Also, the gear changes weren't what I expected. They felt a bit 'rough' but I put that down to age and wear.

So, now it is running better, the gear changes feel smoother (nice surprise) and cornering is better as well.

I am not sure if it is a mental thing about the gears, but I think they are.
Could it be something to do with lubrication or something?

I don't know if it is sorted completely, but i will run it like this for a while now.
As it wasn't running efficiently before, I expect there might be some deposits that a few good runs will sort out.

(Haven't done the carbs yet, I wanted to try this one first and haven't had the time)
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Re: All sorts.

Post by eternally_troubled on Thu 26 Jan 2017, 5:09 pm

Glad to hear it's running better after your exhaust gasket shenanigans.

I can't really think how fixing the exhaust might make the gear changes smoother, but adjusting/changing the exhaust can change the power curve (like you get from a dyno run) which might mean the bike is making more/less power at particular revs which could make changing gear easier/smoother. or something like that.

Even if any improvement is only in your head it will still make you enjoy riding the bike more, which may make you ride better, which can't really be a bad thing. So I find it's best not too look to far into these things and just enjoy the improvement.
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Grarea
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Location : Cornwall

Re: All sorts.

Post by Grarea on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 3:44 pm

Well, a new exhaust from Motad has done the job.

I think it was a mixture of things.
Each thing i did improved things a bit more.
In need of a good service, filters plugs, oil etc etc, but also it was blowing at the header end.
Finding that the wrong gaskets were on it and the flanges were rotten and not holding a seal.
I don't think they were holding it in one place, anyway, it explained why the guy used paste.

I am a much happier bunny with it now.
Everything is running even better since I changed the exhaust.

The carbs can definitely wait.
(Although, one day, when I have some time, it might be worth doing)

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Re: All sorts.

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