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Oil change question

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TheWizardofOdds
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Oil change question

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Wed 18 May 2016, 4:03 pm

Just a quickie.. do you wait for the oil to stop dripping before fitting new plug and washer. Just drained the oil but it's a constant drip, taking  aaaggges.. 

Anyone?
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jerryfudd
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Re: Oil change question

Post by jerryfudd on Wed 18 May 2016, 4:17 pm

they'll always be a bit of a drip as it'd be near impossible to get it all out..... play it by ear but as long as its not flowing out by the time whats left is diluted into the new oil it'd be pretty insignificant.

I'll usually drain the oil and let it drip with the filler off while i get on with other servicing jobs then pop the plug back in just before refilling, when it becomes a nuisance if i have to move the bike or think I'm going to forget lol

just my 2p anyway Smile

EDIT: quick tip though the last time I did a change I primed the filter by filling it with oil till it stopped soaking it up and made that first level check allot more accurate.
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TheWizardofOdds
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Re: Oil change question

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Wed 18 May 2016, 4:28 pm

Thanks jerryfudd. 

Can't torque it now don't know what's going on!!
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TheWizardofOdds
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Re: Oil change question

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Wed 18 May 2016, 4:31 pm

The oil kit came with a plug and copper washer but it's only tightening a little and then just spinning? Any ideas?
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Jameshambleton
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Re: Oil change question

Post by Jameshambleton on Wed 18 May 2016, 4:47 pm

Is the bolt the correct pitch (space between the threads) try running the old sumplug against the new one and see if the threads fit together, if not you've just stripped your sump.

Edit: the correct pitch and bolt is 1.5mm thread. It's a M14 x 1.5 that you need.
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TheWizardofOdds
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Re: Oil change question

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Wed 18 May 2016, 5:02 pm

@Jameshambleton wrote:Is the bolt the correct pitch (space between the threads) try running the old sumplug against the new one and see if the threads fit together, if not you've just stripped your sump.

Edit: the correct pitch and bolt is 1.5mm thread. It's a M14 x 1.5 that you need.

Thanks James. 

I just refitted the old plug and new copper washer and its tightened ok. I didn't torque it though, just by hand. I've filled the oil and am now checking level. Would the old plug have fitted if I had stripped the sump?
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TheWizardofOdds
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Re: Oil change question

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Wed 18 May 2016, 5:03 pm

Wish I'd compared the threads as you said. I can't remember where I got the plug from but it was eBay I know that much.
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Jameshambleton
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Re: Oil change question

Post by Jameshambleton on Wed 18 May 2016, 5:26 pm

I hope it was a m13 bolt then and not a m14, if it was a m14 and the wrong pitch it would have stripped the thread I believe.
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TheWizardofOdds
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Re: Oil change question

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Wed 18 May 2016, 6:10 pm

@Jameshambleton wrote:I hope it was a m13 bolt then and not a m14, if it was a m14 and the wrong pitch it would have stripped the thread I believe.

Yip. Theres a spot of oil underneath the sump after filling it and running it for a while. 

What's the script with this if I've stripped the thread? How can that be fixed? Or can it?
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Re: Oil change question

Post by eternally_troubled on Wed 18 May 2016, 6:43 pm

If you managed to do up the old bolt to the correct torque then that suggests that the thread can't be that knackered... if you really want to check give it a slight tighten up - if it is knackered then it will just keep spinning, if not it might stop the leak Smile

IF you do need to 'fix' the thread then the suggested method would be to remove the sump (see Haynes!) and use a helicoil thread insert and a new, correct sump plug. Removing the sump might be a pain (I've never done it so I don't know) and you probably want someone else to do the helicoil (unless you like drilling perpendicular holes and tapping threads).
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Re: Oil change question

Post by Jameshambleton on Wed 18 May 2016, 7:13 pm

There is a cheap sump on the bay

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Re: Oil change question

Post by sullivj on Wed 18 May 2016, 7:31 pm

Take the oil out, into a clean container, and check the condition of the threads.
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TheWizardofOdds
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Re: Oil change question

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:42 pm

@eternally_troubled wrote:If you managed to do up the old bolt to the correct torque then that suggests that the thread can't be that knackered...  if you really want to check give it a slight tighten up - if it is knackered then it will just keep spinning, if not it might stop the leak Smile

IF you do need to 'fix' the thread then the suggested method would be to remove the sump (see Haynes!) and use a helicoil thread insert and a new, correct sump plug.  Removing the sump might be a pain (I've never done it so I don't know) and you probably want someone else to do the helicoil (unless you like drilling perpendicular holes and tapping threads).
I don't know it's the right torque, I doubt it but it's on tight. 
Thanks. 
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Re: Oil change question

Post by ashcroc on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:43 pm

Another option for a stripped sump would be aralditing in one of these. Oversized sump bolts are also available for you to tap out to.
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TheWizardofOdds
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Re: Oil change question

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:44 pm

@Jameshambleton wrote:There is a cheap sump on the bay

Yeah I saw that thanks. I hope I don't  have to change the sump.
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Re: Oil change question

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:45 pm

@sullivj wrote:Take the oil out, into a clean container, and check the condition of the threads.

I'll do that in the morning, at work tonight. 

Cheers.
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Re: Oil change question

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Wed 18 May 2016, 8:55 pm

It never ceases to amaze me.. with good intentions I manage to fuck everything up. 

Got new sump plugs and washers, nice silkolene oil, oem filter and then this happens. 

I've been doing well by going out every day to work in all weathers after months of the bike being garaged, and was really enjoying it, I love my bike it's tired and in dire need of tlc but it still rewards and is such good fun to ride. 

There is a definite leak and the plug is weeping. Could it be just the washer? I can't remember which one I fitted. I put back the original plug with a new washer but not sure if it was the washer I used initially. I'll drain the oil tomorrow and change the washer again see if it makes a difference. 

Can the sump be changed in situ if need be? What would I require. A new gasket? 

Can't believe it. I put the plug on very loosely only so I could fit socket and tightened with torque wrench about three pulls and wasn't sure if it clicked. It's a huge 1/2" drive job and got no feel off it, also, first time using one. Prob turned it again and fucked it. I'll never use torque on that again.

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Re: Oil change question

Post by sullivj on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:09 pm

Don't beat yourself up too much. It's easy to over tighten it.

It could be the washer - they're designed to be used once, although people sometimes get away with using them again - I wouldn't.

I THINK you can remove the dump in situ. If so, it would only need a gasket. The gasket is £13.19 plus VAT.

Drain the oil and take a good look at the threads.
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Re: Oil change question

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Wed 18 May 2016, 9:58 pm

@sullivj wrote:Don't beat yourself up too much. It's easy to over tighten it.

It could be the washer - they're designed to be used once, although people sometimes get away with using them again - I wouldn't.

I THINK you can remove the dump in situ. If so, it would only need a gasket. The gasket is £13.19 plus VAT.

Drain the oil and take a good look at the threads.
Thanks. 


Where do you get the gasket? 


I'm not sure how much of the threads I'll be able to see, but will have a look for sure. Hopefully I can use another washer and all's well. I'm not feeling hopeful. 

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Re: Oil change question

Post by sullivj on Thu 19 May 2016, 6:31 am

The gasket is available from Honda.

Good luck. Let us know how you get on.
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Re: Oil change question

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Thu 19 May 2016, 10:25 am

@sullivj wrote:The gasket is available from Honda.

Good luck. Let us know how you get on.

Where do you buy from Honda is it their site online or do you order by phone? I saw fowlers have one for 9£ odds but there may be vat and postage on that too. And I don't know if it's OEM or not. 

I've drained the oil and fitted the original plug with a new copper washer.This morning I went through the bin (nice) and found the brand new washer in the packet, I also found the plug I ordered online and it has alloy or aluminium pieces on it so I've deffo taken some of the sump. 

I've ran the bike for a good ten mins idling and there's no leakage yet. 

Note to self: learn how to use a fcuking torque wrench and when it clicks leave it. Also, 1/2" is too big I need 3/8". 
Use only OEM plugs not ones off eBay that are way different and don't come close to fitting. Always have at least two blue rolls in the garage!

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Re: Oil change question

Post by sullivj on Thu 19 May 2016, 1:28 pm

@TheWizardofOdds wrote:

@sullivj wrote:The gasket is available from Honda.

Good luck. Let us know how you get on.



Where do you buy from Honda is it their site online or do you order by phone? I saw fowlers have one for 9£ odds but there may be vat and postage on that too. And I don't know if it's OEM or not. 

I've drained the oil and fitted the original plug with a new copper washer.This morning I went through the bin (nice) and found the brand new washer in the packet, I also found the plug I ordered online and it has alloy or aluminium pieces on it so I've deffo taken some of the sump. 

I've ran the bike for a good ten mins idling and there's no leakage yet. 

Note to self: learn how to use a fcuking torque wrench and when it clicks leave it. Also, 1/2" is too big I need 3/8". 
Use only OEM plugs not ones off eBay that are way different and don't come close to fitting. Always have at least two blue rolls in the garage!

Sounds like you've made good progress.  You can buy from your local Honda dealer, or Lings Honda Parts.  Google will tell you which is nearest.

Yes, I would suggest that a half inch driver is WAY too big for that.  JerryFudd always tightens up to a lower torque first, and builds up to the final 'click', which is a safe way to do it.  I just do it up Very Happy
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Re: Oil change question

Post by jerryfudd on Thu 19 May 2016, 2:11 pm

@sullivj wrote:JerryFudd always tightens up to a lower torque first, and builds up to the final 'click', which is a safe way to do it.  I just do it up Very Happy


Indeed, but then I also like my 1/2 ratchets and 3/8 breaker too Smile

granted they are over kill for many (many!) applications but with a stubby socket on they give a nice smooth consistent delivery of power with little effort which I find is better and safer particularly when removing bolts than just yanking it.

on the sump front fyi iirc yes it can be removed in situ just takes a bit of fiddling to get it under the internal filter (I say iirc as I can't remember if the headers were on at the time but I believe they were). My original had one of the large supporting fins broken so managed to get a NOS one from David Silvers - about £70 odd I think.

also, only the earlier models came with a sump gasket - for instance my 2002 does not (go compare the diagrams on Lings) just give a good bead of Hylomar when refitting. So just be weary about fitting a older model sump to a newer bike or vice versa I guess.

Dan
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Re: Oil change question

Post by Jameshambleton on Thu 19 May 2016, 2:44 pm

Both of my torque wrenches are 1/2" I always do my bolts up but hand until they seat, give them a quick nip up and then torque them halfway and then I usually leave the bolt 5nm below the torque setting.
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TheWizardofOdds
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Re: Oil change question

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Fri 20 May 2016, 11:24 pm

It seems I've escaped the ham-fisted oil change with some important lessons learned. At least, the plug is dry and there are no leaks.  

I was at a loose end this morning with an empty house and some much needed garage time with no kids around. I approached the bike expecting to see god knows what beneath the bike. Fresh oil (sort of), filter, and decided to take the cb out after doing about nine readings and starts. 

Long story short...great day, blasted about the countryside in sunshine and very pleasant temperatures and had a great time. I can't really say I noticed much difference in the bike's performance, as I think it gives far more than I deserve anyway given my lacking maintenance schedule but it was certainly no worse. Only an oil change anyway and it needs everything done. Such a bloody good bike, have I mentioned that? ☺

Next time: torque wrench? hmm...I doubt it but I still like the idea. Ordering from Honda, end of. 

Thanks for the responses and advice team.

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