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[solved]Starting issue

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Mad_Taffy_500
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Solved [solved]Starting issue

Post by Mad_Taffy_500 on Sun 08 May 2016, 1:29 am

So about 3 weeks ago I had issue with my.bike starting turn on and fired up fine out side the house rode 3.min to v get fuel and came out the shop and bike would not start bumped it and got to work found the battery to be dodge so replaced with a new one and everything was fine 

I've not used the bike sinces and the problem has come back. All I get is a clicking from the starter relay

I've done some test and so far I've got this

 the battery read 12.73v off bike on the bike with lights on and press starter button it reads 12.13v 

What I'm think is it either shorting somewhere or could it.be the regulator that's pack up 

Any help would be great
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wornsprokets
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by wornsprokets on Sun 08 May 2016, 8:42 am

The battery to charge needs 13.5v , sounds like ur regulator rectifier is gone, also check the connectors to starter relay as mine had corrosion and it wouldnt help
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Tricky.
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by Tricky. on Sun 08 May 2016, 9:23 am

as above, you need near on 14v at the battery when running, could be reg/rec gone. if all is charging ok, check/clean all your connections/earth points.
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Mad_Taffy_500
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by Mad_Taffy_500 on Sun 08 May 2016, 1:22 pm

Anyone got a link to how to test the reg/rec 

Battery is on charger and checked the starter relay and found bad corrosion under the main fuse cover on the pins so have cleaned that and checked the reg/rec earth and clean that up as well
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wornsprokets
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by wornsprokets on Sun 08 May 2016, 1:30 pm

When both regulator rectifiers went in my cb and fireblade they damaged both batteries( regulators are same part Twisted Evil i am afraid Neutral Neutral Neutral check on you tube how to test regulator rectifiers
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Tricky.
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by Tricky. on Sun 08 May 2016, 8:48 pm

again, as above, forgot to say, if the reg is knackered and youve used your bike for any length of time, it could of destroyed the battery, you will need to do a drop test on it to confirm this.
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Mad_Taffy_500
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by Mad_Taffy_500 on Sun 08 May 2016, 8:59 pm

Well battery is on trickle charger over night and go from there 

And as said battery was replaced then use for a one hour ride and not been used sinces but will test it as well
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wornsprokets
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by wornsprokets on Sun 08 May 2016, 10:33 pm

Both my batterys were fairly new and good brands, i charge them on trickle charger its a very good one. They charge to correct voltage and bosch would start cb once turn off then be flat again. Yuasa wouldnt even start cb(bosch was about 1 yr old) yuasa was only about 6 months i believe the regulator rectifiers in both bikes failing damaged both of them( talk about bad luck Mad)
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eternally_troubled
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by eternally_troubled on Mon 09 May 2016, 12:29 pm

Mad_Taffy_500 wrote:
 the battery read 12.73v off bike on the bike with lights on and press starter button it reads 12.13v 


That is, when you are pressing the starter button?  If so that is fine.  It would be low if the bike was running.

I was going to say you should check the relay connections for corrosion but it sounds like you've done that already :)

The voltage should get to 14.5V but only once the bike has started, it will be lower before that.

If you get (or are still having) the 'relay clicking' problem, try putting the bike in 2nd gear, rolling it forward so the engine turns over, putting it back in neutral and trying to start it again. This should shift the starter motor a bit and might mean you get a better contact on the commutator, which might just do the trick.
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ashcroc
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by ashcroc on Mon 09 May 2016, 6:00 pm

It could just be dirt in the starter motor. Try rocking the bike in gear when you get the click & it may fire up.

There's a decent starter motor rebuild how-to somewhere on the forum.
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Mad_Taffy_500
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by Mad_Taffy_500 on Mon 09 May 2016, 9:03 pm

Well battery been on trickle charger all day and reading around 14v now so will test it out 2morrow and come back with more findings
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by eternally_troubled on Tue 10 May 2016, 12:52 pm

Good luck!
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Mad_Taffy_500
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by Mad_Taffy_500 on Tue 10 May 2016, 5:06 pm

Well put the battery on the bike today and it fired up after a few goes. Test the battery on the bike at 5k rpm and got a reading of 14.5-14.7 volts so now a bit confused as to what it could be
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davebike500
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by davebike500 on Wed 11 May 2016, 11:54 am

Charging tests as used in My Workshop

Start bike idle measure voltage across battery
12.3-13+volts
rev bike should rise to 13.8 to14.8 Volts no rise no charge !

If no charge disconnect rec/reg   there should be battery voltage accros green and red wires and from green to black with inigtion on (if black is fitted not std on CB500)

Stator resistance any pair of yellow wires should be 0.5-2 ohms
any stator wire to -ve (earth) should be at least 20M ohms

if no charge and stator is good rec/reg is faulty no reliable test fro rec/reg without very cleaver tools / test equipment
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rob75
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by rob75 on Wed 18 May 2016, 3:21 pm

It seems your charging voltage (14.5 V) is ok.
Might be there is some corrosion between rectifier and frame (ground) or the connector to the rectifier and charging coil may have some corrosion. Clean them and spray with good contact cleaner.

Voltage may be ok, but the necessary power may be to low caused by high resistance at several points.

Succes,
Rob
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Mad_Taffy_500
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by Mad_Taffy_500 on Sun 22 May 2016, 4:52 pm

Well still no luck with finding this issue try to jump start the bike today and get the same clicking sound from the starter relay got power going to the starter relay of 12-13v but seems to lose it from there tryed a different starter relay which I know is good same issue 

But the bike will bump start fine 

So thinking there is something wrong in the start circuit maybe lose wire or something so might have to give in and take it to a garage
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ashcroc
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by ashcroc on Mon 23 May 2016, 12:39 pm

You're pretty much describing a duff/dirty starter motor.  Have you tried nudging  the bike forward in gear when you get the dreaded click to see if it'll start?  The brushes could need replacing or it could just need a cleanout.  Either way it's a fairly simple job & there's a decent 'how to' here


Last edited by ashcroc on Mon 23 May 2016, 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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eternally_troubled
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by eternally_troubled on Mon 23 May 2016, 12:41 pm

Mad_Taffy_500 wrote:Well still no luck with finding this issue try to jump start the bike today and get the same clicking sound from the starter relay got power going to the starter relay of 12-13v but seems to lose it from there tryed a different starter relay which I know is good same issue 

But the bike will bump start fine 

So thinking there is something wrong in the start circuit maybe lose wire or something so might have to give in and take it to a garage

You need to measure the voltage at the starter motor, to check the juice is getting there.

There is a stud on top of the motor which is the positive connection from the starter relay - you should get no voltage (0V or so) between the stud and ground normally and some voltage (up to 12V or so) when you press the starter button. You should measure this voltage while pressing the starter button and getting your clicking noise (might be easier with an assistant).
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Mad_Taffy_500
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by Mad_Taffy_500 on Mon 23 May 2016, 1:12 pm

I'm starting to lean toward the starter motor as I rocked it in gear this moring till I heard it click over then put in neutal and it fired up no issue
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by eternally_troubled on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 7:01 pm

Mad_Taffy_500 wrote:I'm starting to lean toward the starter motor as I rocked it in gear this moring till I heard it click over then put in neutal and it fired up no issue


Yeah, if that's fixing it then it's probably the starter.  Worth taking it off, taking apart, cleaning it up and checking the length of the brushes.  Have a look at Haynes for the details, it's not too difficult to do.

Also, have a look at this thread:

http://www.cb500club.net/t390-solvedcleaning-up-the-starter-motor?highlight=starter+motor
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Mad_Taffy_500
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by Mad_Taffy_500 on Fri 03 Jun 2016, 9:27 pm

Well looks like the problem is solved Very Happy turned out to be the most simples problem a badly rusted connector on the top of the starter motor 

Dint a week-long test and is fireing off the button every time 

Thanks for all the help people
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Solved Re: [solved]Starting issue

Post by eternally_troubled on Tue 07 Jun 2016, 9:45 am

Glad to hear that it was something simple and that you've fixed it!

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