Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle.

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Anigai
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Broken Down

Post by Anigai on Fri 12 Feb 2016, 7:41 pm

Have to say guys the owl cb isn't quite my favourite bike yet.

Then again I did buy a bit of a ratty courier bike so this might explain why she died on me.

I've noticed problems for a couple of days now. She didn't start well today on the way to work. Almost as if the battery was nearly dead.

Seems possible the lights put a slightly higher drain than the bike wants to put out.
I'm betting yet another dodgy R/C from Honda or I've got some corrosion in there somewhere.
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Jameshambleton
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Re: Broken Down

Post by Jameshambleton on Fri 12 Feb 2016, 7:51 pm

The standard honda charging system is overkill for the standard charging needs of the bike. The other things that can cause problems are heated grips ect. 
Check the charging system using a multimeter, I'm sure someone will post up a pic of the right page!
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Anigai
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Re: Broken Down

Post by Anigai on Fri 12 Feb 2016, 8:01 pm

I'll pull the R/R out tomorrow.
I'll add in the stator if it tests fine.

Test test test.

I've always wanted another C90 lol
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Jameshambleton
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Re: Broken Down

Post by Jameshambleton on Fri 12 Feb 2016, 8:27 pm

At least you're well practiced then
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Anigai
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Re: Broken Down

Post by Anigai on Fri 12 Feb 2016, 9:02 pm

I like to think of it as gifted amateur, I've an ok amount of knowledge but not a huge amount of experience. i've done most things on bikes at least twice.

Made it home now, I've got access to a Fazer 600 so I'll do a few experiments tomorrow from that.

I suspect the bike will jump start and run no problem until I switch it's lights on then it will slowly die during idle. If that happens it points to the regulator rectifier right off the bat, I'm a little tired of throwing parts at this bike but if it's gotta be done then it's gotta be done.
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wornsprokets
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Re: Broken Down

Post by wornsprokets on Fri 12 Feb 2016, 10:10 pm

The regulator rectifier is a piece of s--t , it packed  up in cb and damaged the battery, ive also a 96 fireblade it stoped when i had lights on , regulator rectifier packed up and damaged the  battery,  u guessed it its same regulator rectifier type in both bikes, if u want a good regulator rectifier there not cheap, cheap ones wont last, the joy of old bikes, no matter how good a bike is there all money  pits, there a wiring solution  to help  keep regulator ok
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Anigai
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Re: Broken Down

Post by Anigai on Sat 13 Feb 2016, 10:02 am

@wornsprokets wrote:The regulator rectifier is a piece of s--t , it packed  up in cb and damaged the battery, ive also a 96 fireblade it stoped when i had lights on , regulator rectifier packed up and damaged the  battery,  u guessed it its same regulator rectifier type in both bikes, if u want a good regulator rectifier there not cheap, cheap ones wont last, the joy of old bikes, no matter how good a bike is there all money  pits, there a wiring solution  to help  keep regulator ok

You sound like you might have a recommendation for an average quality replacement am i correct? Smile
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eternally_troubled
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Re: Broken Down

Post by eternally_troubled on Sat 13 Feb 2016, 11:23 am

If you want to check the regulator rectifier:

* Clean up the connections to the regulator rectifier, including the earthing tag, just in case.

* Charge up the battery overnight (or at least, fully charge it) - then it won't be skewing your measurement

* Start the bike, switch the headlight on, rev 4 - 5k rpm and measure the battery voltage

* If it's between 14.4 - 15 volts then the R/R and the stator are fine (or at least, as good as they ever have been!)


If the voltage is above 15 volts then the R/R is almost definitely toast - switch the bike of and don't use it until you've replaced the R/R or else you'll cook your battery.

If it's less than 14.4 volts then either the R/R is buggered or the stator is buggered or (rarely) both.

In this case measure the resistance of the three stator coils - there are three measurements to make. If the three stator wires are called A, B and C measure the resistance A -> B, A -> C and B -> C. All three resistance measurements should be quite low (there's a spec in Haynes) and similar value.

Then measure the resistance of each terminal to ground, that is, A -> ground, B -> ground and C -> ground. All three should be infinite (or very high) (ie. none of the coils should have continuity with ground).

If the stator doesn't measure up (ie. the coils are broken or shorted to ground) then fix that first and re-measure the battery voltage as above to see if the R/R is ok.


From previous experience it is most likely to be your R/R that is broken.
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wornsprokets
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Re: Broken Down

Post by wornsprokets on Sat 13 Feb 2016, 11:31 am

I bought a tourmax from cityspares that was 120 euro i know its salty price but it been great so far. I bought fireblade one from west county windings in uk it was simular price. They recondition your stator if its knackered . Also i soldered a cable onto main earth cable going to regulator rectifier and the going direct onto negative battery terminal. U can buy cheap r,r but if u intend to keep your bikes for long time i think its worth itIf ur not going keep your bike long get cheap one
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Re: Broken Down

Post by eternally_troubled on Sat 13 Feb 2016, 11:50 am

If you're going to go for an OEM one then make sure you get the one with fins, like this:




The 'original' one supplied with the bike had no fins and got too hot, then went pop....
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Anigai
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Re: Broken Down

Post by Anigai on Sat 13 Feb 2016, 3:33 pm

Wow i was just about to ask for help, you guys are the bees knees
Especially you eternally troubled, what a great guide.

You just helped me realize i made a mistake when i was testing the bike, i don't think i revved it enough to get a correct reading on the battery so i'll have to do it again.
i also tried tested the reg/rec and I was trying to figure out if it was knackered with various youtube vids giving different info.

I've had to switch my insurance back onto my GN250 since i can't do without a working bike but that's good news in a way that means I can take my time and work though that little guide.

Cheers again.

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Re: Broken Down

Post by sullivj on Sat 13 Feb 2016, 6:38 pm

I still have the original unfinned one on my bike. It hasn't popped yet...
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Re: Broken Down

Post by eternally_troubled on Sat 13 Feb 2016, 8:46 pm

@sullivj wrote:I still have the original unfinned one on my bike. It hasn't popped yet...

Some people have all the luck! :)
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Anigai
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Re: Broken Down

Post by Anigai on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 7:46 pm

I'm inclined to think the stator is done for.

I measured the resistence in the stator and haynes specs it out to be 0.08 - 0.10 but my readings are indicating between 0.3 - 0.5.
I tested the R/R in the way the Honda service manual says and everything SEEMS to be ok.

i threw the battery into an FZS 600 i know is good and it's fine so at least the battery is good still even if it is the wrong size battery physically.

A mate of mine whos a little better with electrics that me will have a look tomorrow to confirm if I'm right.

Cheers guys
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wornsprokets
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Re: Broken Down

Post by wornsprokets on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 8:37 pm

There a guy on d.d in finglas breaking a cb, how old is your multi meter,  ive an old  fluke multi meter and it gave different reading when i tried an other multi meter, mine needs to be seviced or junked. That hayne manual is not the best, some of the things in it are not always right,
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Re: Broken Down

Post by eternally_troubled on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 9:30 pm

@Anigai wrote:I'm inclined to think the stator is done for.

I measured the resistence in the stator and haynes specs it out to be 0.08 - 0.10 but my readings are indicating between 0.3 - 0.5.
I tested the R/R in the way the Honda service manual says and everything SEEMS to be ok.

i threw the battery into an FZS 600 i know is good and it's fine so at least the battery is good still even if it is the wrong size battery physically.

A mate of mine whos a little better with electrics that me will have a look tomorrow to confirm if I'm right.

Cheers guys

hmm. Those resistances don't sound too far off to me. What does your meter read if you just connect the two leads together?

Did you manage to do the battery-voltage test while revving the bike?

Having a mate on-hand is often a good idea.
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Anigai
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Re: Broken Down

Post by Anigai on Sun 14 Feb 2016, 10:50 pm

The leads own resistance is pretty low with only 0.02.
Also the bike puts out a dismal 12.8 while being revved which is truly a God awful number isn't it.

I'm also thinking that i tested the R/R incorrectly too, all the youtube videos I'm watching the guys get a reading in only one direction depending on the positive or negative circuit being tested which is good as far i know about diodes.

When I test the negative circuit i get nothing in any direction EXCEPT only against the positive terminal.

Give me something mechanical anyday and I'm fairly handy but electrics just piss me off if I'm honest.

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Re: Broken Down

Post by Guest on Tue 16 Feb 2016, 3:35 pm

Check connections if resistance measurements are too high. A low charge voltage means your battery will never be able to get charged to a higher voltage than what you measured.

Below some info for the electrician... all the best study



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Anigai
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Re: Broken Down

Post by Anigai on Tue 16 Feb 2016, 7:50 pm

Cheers werner, since i'm getting high resistence values on the stator I think that's the part at fault so I'll replace that.

I don't think the R/R is bad just yet but when it goes back on it's getting the whole lot including a clean and use of the large amount of thermal paste I've got lying around too.

Thanks for help guys.
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Re: Broken Down

Post by eternally_troubled on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 12:40 pm

If you want to do another check before you rip the bike apart then you can measure open circuit voltage that the stator manages to generate by doing this:

1. Charge the battery (again!) or at least make sure it is fairly charged.

2. Start the bike.

3. Switch the multimeter to the 'AC volts' setting.

4. Unplug the rectifier regulator (the bike is now just running off the battery alone and not charging).

5. Measure the voltage across the three stator phases (A -> B, A -> C, B -> C).

6. Rev the bike and see what effect it has on the voltages (an assistant may be helpful for this).


The voltages you measure should all be similar across the three phases for a given engine speed.

As I remember the voltage should get quite high when you rev the bike (part of me remembers it got to about 40 V when I did mine).

The open circuit voltage won't tell us too much but might help to isolate if one coil is knackered (for example, if one has shorted itself you won't easily tell my measuring the resistance however it would not be able to generate as much voltage as the other two, which you would (probably) see with this test).

Good luck!
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Anigai
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Re: Broken Down

Post by Anigai on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:01 pm

Good idea, i'll try to do that one today ideally before I part with any cash.

Cheers man.
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Re: Broken Down

Post by badseeds on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:11 pm

@sullivj wrote:I still have the original unfinned one on my bike. It hasn't popped yet...

They can last.... Donkey's one died at 17 years old.
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Jameshambleton
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Re: Broken Down

Post by Jameshambleton on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:33 pm

@badseeds wrote:



@sullivj wrote:I still have the original unfinned one on my bike. It hasn't popped yet...





They can last.... Donkey's one died at 17 years old.



Mines on borrowed time then as mines 18 years and 4 months, no where near your milage though only 31k miles.
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Re: Broken Down

Post by Stooby2 on Sat 20 Feb 2016, 3:19 pm

Easiest way to check the rectifier is to start the bike, turn the lights on and apply the brake to switch the brake light on as well. Rev the bike to about 5,000rpm - the lights should brighten noticeably and then dim again when the revs drop back to tickover. Doing it the dark really shows this up.

If they don't change brightness, your rectifier is toast. A mechanic I spoke to recommended running an earth lead from the battery to one of the mounting bolts as the rectfier earths through the casing and doesn't always earth well, leading to verheating and failure. Done this on mine.
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Anigai
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Re: Broken Down

Post by Anigai on Wed 24 Feb 2016, 6:56 pm

I bit the bullet guys, trying to get all this electrical stuff has been sending me for a loop.
I'm pretty good at a lot of things and generally ok with everything except 3 things: Knots, maths and electrics.

After trying everything you guys sugested I was still second guessing myself so i figured a bike shop can just give me a yes or no answer.

Brought the R/R in and asked him to test, he send it's dead and thats good enough for me so that means new R/R time.

Cheers for all the help guys.

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