Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle.

What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

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eternally_troubled
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What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by eternally_troubled on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 8:27 pm



Yes folks that's  a snapped stud with none sticking out... well, kind of.

My downpipes were falling off 'cos the collars that hold them on were almost rusted through and my new (somewhat longer) commute had shaken the downpipes off the engine. The noise was pretty bad so I decided to do something about it.... ho ho ho.

I thought that I might be able to get away with putting a new bolt in with a big washer to hold it for a bit while I bought some new downpipes. The old rusted stud came out but unfortunately the 'new' (and obviously crap) bolt that I was trying to use to fix it (bodge it!) snapped. DOH DOH DOH!

I'm *really* hoping that I can persuade the remnants of the bolt out by heating it all up and carefully hitting it with an off-centre centre punch to try and screw it out - I fear this will not work and I will have to drill it out. ho hum.

Sadly it's the 'top' bolt, so I suspect I'm going to have to remove the radiator to get the drill in... arse arse arse.


Last edited by eternally_troubled on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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HomeBrew
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by HomeBrew on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 8:40 pm

You gonna drill?
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by eternally_troubled on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 8:46 pm

HomeBrew wrote:You gonna drill?

See above (I've just edited some more words in).

Oh yes, to add to all that I'm pretty sure that my engine mounting bolt its completely seized and won't come out, so taking the engine out and doing it 'properly' won't be easy either. Oh well. It will keep me occupied :)

sullivj
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by sullivj on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 9:02 pm

Nasty. That's definately gonna be a challenge. Centre punch, then a small drill, gradually getting bigger... You'll get there in the end.
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skyrider
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by skyrider on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 10:12 pm

you could try a stud extractor
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wornsprokets
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by wornsprokets on Fri 22 Jan 2016, 11:12 pm

I want to take my down pipes off to paint, but have nightmares of this happening. It reminds me of the days of 1990s yamahas there bolts every were made of cheese Sad

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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by sullivj on Sat 23 Jan 2016, 1:01 am

There plenty of advice on here about the best way to try.. I followed that, and thankfully mine came off without a problem, as did the engine mounts. 

One thing's for sure - they don't get better with age, so give it a try sooner, rather than later!
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by teamster1975 on Sat 23 Jan 2016, 10:15 am

Ouch! May be worth centre punching and trying a reverse drill bit?
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by badseeds on Sat 23 Jan 2016, 12:02 pm

Same thing happened to me with the 'new' CB500. I successfully bodged it all back together with two exhaust gaskets in that side which quietened it down sufficiently for me to ignore it.

I need to get busy and fix it, but whilst it's working fine it's easy to forget   Neutral
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by stormbringer on Sat 23 Jan 2016, 5:30 pm

Awwwww...

As previously suggested - centre punch, small drill and may I then suggest one of these...

You might just get lucky.
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by Invisible_Man on Sat 23 Jan 2016, 7:06 pm

Hey,
Happened the first time i took my pipes off for cleaning and repainting. 2 snapped. One had had plenty sticking out so a nut was welded on. The other required careful drilling. Centre punch and then larger and larger drill bit.

When i put it back together copious amounts of copper slip where used. Recently taken the pipes off again for painting and the nuts came off with ease Smile

IM.
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by Alvi on Sun 24 Jan 2016, 9:18 pm

Fwiw, I'd go with the 'centre punch & small drill, then gradually increasing the drill size' suggestions. I've not had the pleasure of a header stud yet, but I've done a few caliper bleed screws amongst other things this way & it's always worked. Usually you end up with just the remains of the bolt thread,which you can pick out with a small screwdriver. Whatever you try, good luck!
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by ratatooie on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 10:07 am

stormbringer wrote:Awwwww...

As previously suggested - centre punch, small drill and may I then suggest one of these...

You might just get lucky.

I have a set of these from a different manufacturer and some die drill bits too (which you use first to give the reverse threaded bits purchase). They work well actually. Surprisingly easy to use!
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by jerryfudd on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 11:17 am

skyrider wrote:you could try a stud extractor

Sorry to hear of your problem, the last time I had something similar I used a stud extractor - which then also broke and was made of considerably harder material than the bolt itself making the job about 1000x harder as I had to drill round the extractor to get that out and then drill out the bolt. I really don't trust them after that!

Dan
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by eternally_troubled on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 12:44 pm

Alvi wrote:Fwiw, I'd go with the 'centre punch & small drill, then gradually increasing the drill size' suggestions. I've not had the pleasure of a header stud yet, but I've done a few caliper bleed screws amongst other things this way & it's always worked. Usually you end up with just the remains of the bolt thread,which you can pick out with a small screwdriver. Whatever you try, good luck!


That's what I decided to do - I've done it before on other bikes and it worked.

Sadly I wasn't as lucky/skilled this time - a drill snapped, which is an arse.

I've had to enlarge the hole a fair bit and I suspect the stud won't end up being in quite the same place when I've worked out how to put it in, so I might have to 'adjust' the stud-holes on my new exhaust to match.... grrrrr.


I've also had problems with 'easy outs' (those reverse threaded things you stick in the hole) and don't want to use them again.

I've bought some stainless studs and nuts off ebay to hopefully reduce the chance of this happening again (I will be using copper slip - I don't want the stainless to weld itself into my engine!).

I've got some photos of the horrific process so at some point I'll put them up for everyone to see...

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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by Alvi on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 9:33 pm

Bugger! Hope the repair works out ok. Only 12 months since I had mine off, but now I think I'll take them off again & put some more copper slip on them.......

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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by sullivj on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 10:22 pm

Alvi wrote:Bugger! Hope the repair works out ok. Only 12 months since I had mine off, but now I think I'll take them off again & put some more copper slip on them.......

+1.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's looking forward to seeing the photos ET.
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by skyrider on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 7:35 pm

well I suppose mine will be well fast then nobody will have taken them off in the bikes lifetime, time to get busy with the plus gas Neutral
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by eternally_troubled on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 7:47 pm

Remember this problem?



Here's a full record of the bodging (which started last weekend)....


These two give you an idea of how much I had to take off the bike:





Thankfully the radiator was relatively easy to remove as I'd replaced it with a new one a year or two ago.


So if you look here:



you can see the sheared off bolt with a tiny little centre-punch mark in it fairly close to the middle.

So far so good.

I started to drill the bolt out with a small drill (1 or 2 mm) - this went fine.  So I contiued with a slightly larger drill... and promply manage to snap the end of it off in the hole.  ARGH. GAH.

After a while we end up with this kind of hole:



(that's an off centre (avoiding bits of snapped drill) hole.

Here's a view from another angle:



As an aside, I replaced my breaher pipe (that was horribly squashed and full of slimey grot) with a bit of leftover hose-pipe, which was just the right diameter.  We will see how long it lasts:




So here's where the inadvisable bodgeing starts.

I decided to put some of this in the hole:



Yes, that's epoxy putty - the same epoxy putty that I used to gum up the hole in my generator casing (caused when I crashed slowly into my wife at a roundabout - that's another story!)

Here is the hole stuffed with epoxy putty:



and here's a suitable hole for an M6 x 1.0 tap drilled in the set putty:



I tapped the hole with the rather cheap tap set I bought from toolstation and then fitted the new stud:



At this point things looked good, however I was pretty sure that desptite the generous holes in the collars of the new downpipes I was going to need to enlarge them slightly to accomodate the off-centre position of my new stud.

So I attacked the holes in the collar with a large rat-tail file.  Fileing lumps of stainless is hard work and takes hours....

Eventually I got the downpipes/collars to fit and started to tighten up the nuts - sadly things started to go awry and my screwed into epoxy putty stud started to pull itself out DOH! DOH! DOH!

I tried to rescue this by coating it in normal epoxy resin and sticking back into the hole:  suffice to say that while this was *a bit* better it also came out when tightened.

So after a bit of googling I found out about these self-tapping threaded inserts - they are similar to things like timeserts.  They take up more room (you have to drill a bigger hole!) than a helicoil but, to me, seem easier to use.

Anyway, I needed to drill a bigger hole to get (mainly) out of the epoxy and into the aluminum - the M6 threaded insert needs an approx. 8.5 mm hole for its outside thread, so I went ahead and carefully drilled an 8.5 mm hole, starting with smaller drills and ending up with this:



Now this looks like a monster hole in the front of your bike!  I'm hoping this is going to work!  So I start to screw the insert into the hole, using an M6 cap-bolt and nut to drive the self-tapping outside thread into the hole:



(you might need to zoom in to see the insert)


Here's a picture of the thread-insert full inserted into the hole:




Before I could try the stud into the insert and attempt to get the downpipes back onto the bike I had to clean up by epoxy-covered stud.  The epoxy was stuck on and not coming off easily.



Thankfully this is where the cheapo tap and die kit comes in handy - I used the M6 x 1.00 die to clean the crap out of the threads on my stainless stud.

and, drum roll, the downpipes now fit and tighten up OK:




GET IN!!!

I gave them a good pull an them remained stuck.  It was now dark and I'm going to try and put the rest of the bike back together tomorrow, when I'll be able to tell you if they remain stuck on after a few miles of ride.
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skyrider
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by skyrider on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 8:03 pm

looking good up to now Smile
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teamster1975
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by teamster1975 on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 8:12 pm

What a mission! Great fix ET, I've bookmarked that link to the inserts, could come in very useful one day!

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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by sullivj on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 8:21 pm

Bloody great write up ET - thank you. I totally admire your persistence. Glad to hear you're finally sorted.

I was lucky that mind didn't snap, and span out OK.
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wornsprokets
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by wornsprokets on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 8:48 pm

Very good job, et  ,  Very Happy

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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by Guest on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 9:23 pm

Wow Shocked , that's a long way. Most admirable of you!
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Alvi
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Re: What you don't want to see when changing your downpipes...

Post by Alvi on Fri 29 Jan 2016, 9:29 pm

Yes, great thread. I've added that link to my favourites - could come in very handy!

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