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Front brake overhaul

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liverpool_f_
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Front brake overhaul

Post by liverpool_f_ on Mon 16 Nov 2015, 10:44 am

Hello all,

I am doing a front brake overhaul including new pads, disc and upgrade to braided hoses. I noticed the Haynes manual says Honda recommends new banjo union washers, new calliper mounting bolts and new disc mounting bolts. I also thought new banjo bolts would be a good idea...until i looked at the prices on Lings. So I wanted some second opinions on how important renewing each component is. So;

1. Banjo union washers x 2. £3.95 each. No idea if they are copper or possess any special properties. Can they be replaced with el cheapo washers of the same size or is there something important about the Honda ones? Can the old ones be reused?

2. Calliper mounting bolts x 2. £3.40 each. Apparently come with locking compound applied. Can I just clean the old ones and use loctite? Will this affect the torque reading and is there any chance the old ones are now over stressed and new replacing?

3. Disc mounting bolts x 6. £6.77 each. Similar with the locking compound. Same as above.

4. Banjo Bolts x 2. £5.04 each. Do they need replacing and is this not an extortionate price?

To replace all these components with genuine Honda will cost almost £70 which seems thoroughly ridiculous for bolts and washers. I never cheap out on brake components so if the consensus is that Mr Honda knows best, I will bite the bullet but I am not entirely convinced.

Any thoughts and experiences would be much appreciated.
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liverpool_f_
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Re: Front brake overhaul

Post by liverpool_f_ on Mon 16 Nov 2015, 10:59 am

I also forgot to add, does anyone have a preference for quality wheel bearings? Honda want 2 x £15! Thought I might as well do it whilst doing everything else.
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jerryfudd
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Re: Front brake overhaul

Post by jerryfudd on Mon 16 Nov 2015, 11:26 am

Hi,

I've done all of the above, if you are ordering new braided lines check if they come with washers and bolts (the ones I got from HEL certainly did). Failing that they are just copper crush washers eitherside of the union and the bolt is an M10x1.0 but please please please check against the old one before inserting as I had a stupid moment and accidentally put in a 1.5 and fubar'ed up my rear caliper and had to get a new one thinking that they would supply me the correct bolts when it was actually a 'selection' to choose from. But to answer your question, no they don't need to be replaced but washers - absolutely and there is 2 per union.

Disc mounting bolts, clean them up or take the pain my friend. I tried S/S counterparts fro ProBolt and they can't handle the torque stated by the workshop manual (43nm I believe, the PB ones crap out about 25nm). Unfortunately mild steel rusts but it is stronger than stainless.

Caliper mount bolts, they are expensive but when you are jamming the brakes on do you really want to trust a bolt that is a cheaper counterpart? .....I didn't. They are quite easy to stretch and go in at a high torque (32nm, but I usually get to about 28/30nm and chicken out). I've removed and put mine back in a few times but only because I know they are 6months old.

Wheel bearings, just get some Koyo ones off ebay or where ever look at Lings parts for the bearing numbers, if you are doing the rears remember you'll also need one for the sprocket carrier.

Dan


Last edited by jerryfudd on Mon 16 Nov 2015, 11:31 am; edited 2 times in total
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jerryfudd
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Re: Front brake overhaul

Post by jerryfudd on Mon 16 Nov 2015, 11:29 am

(oh, and banjo bolts according to the book also go in at a scarily high torque so build up gradually and if it feels 'tight' might be better to just leave it rather than push for that figure but thats up to your judgement)
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liverpool_f_
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Re: Front brake overhaul

Post by liverpool_f_ on Mon 16 Nov 2015, 2:54 pm

Cheers for the input Dan,

I did go for HEL and I read your post about the different thread pitch, which made me want to stay with the originals but I will use the new washers and just be careful with the new Banjo bolts.

Is it wise to use;

- washers and bolts from the Hel kit
- clean and reuse disk bolts w/ blue loctite 
- spring for new calliper bolts

That would bring the bill down from £70 to £7 which I would be very happy with.

Anyone agree or disagree with that plan of action?
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jerryfudd
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Re: Front brake overhaul

Post by jerryfudd on Mon 16 Nov 2015, 3:09 pm

Id use the washers and bolts from the HEL kit as comparing the Honda and HEL bolts the side port is at a slightly different height (pic below - ignore the bleed nipple I think I was comparing OE to a ProBolt S/S one), I didn't compare union depths but just figured those are the bolts that came with them so why not. My pack came with x2 at 1.0 pitch and x4 at 1.5 pitch and surprisingly the 1.5's wound in easily! I guess as they are so corse it just tore through the 1.0 threads. If you give them a call I'm sure they'll send out as many 1.0 bolts as you'll need. While you're on the phone get them to throw in some P clips also as the rubber bungs that came on the lines are too small to fit in the OE clamps.

Disc bolts I'm sure will be find I was just being picky, but might be worth replacing any with mashed up heads - its allot of torque to put on a hex fitment.

Caliper bolts are worth replacing.

If you are taking the lines off you'll have to drain the system of fluid of course so could be a good time to replace the oil and dust seals aswell as inspect the pistons, don't think there is much need to fiddle with the master cylinders unless there is a visible issue.

On the HEL lines remember there is some rotational movement possible in the head for fitment and my only real gripe about them is the rear line is just a little too long.

Dan

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eternally_troubled
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Re: Front brake overhaul

Post by eternally_troubled on Mon 16 Nov 2015, 3:12 pm

If you are careful you can reuse all of those things (with loctite added where appropriate), apart from the banjo washers, which you should replace - there will be cheaper places than Honda to buy them from.

As jerryfudd mentioned the problem is if they have been previously abused by a previous owner. 

Personally I just gave mine a good clean up and inspect, added loctite where appropriate and torqued up correctly, but then, they all looked OK on my bike.
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teamster1975
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Re: Front brake overhaul

Post by teamster1975 on Mon 16 Nov 2015, 5:06 pm

Same here ET. You can avoid butchering the disc bolts by using an impact driver, much less chance of rounding off the heads.
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liverpool_f_
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Re: Front brake overhaul

Post by liverpool_f_ on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:04 am

The last owner was a bit of a butcher so I will Inspect them very carefully! I was thinking of investing in an electric impact driver but I haven't done so yet. Maybe now is the time...
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teamster1975
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Re: Front brake overhaul

Post by teamster1975 on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 9:36 am

@liverpool_f_ wrote:I was thinking of investing in an electric impact driver but I haven't done so yet. Maybe now is the time...

You won't regret it, one of the most useful tools I ever bought Smile
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liverpool_f_
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Re: Front brake overhaul

Post by liverpool_f_ on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 11:49 am

which one did you buy teamster? I am expecting most of them to be useless/underpowered
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teamster1975
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Re: Front brake overhaul

Post by teamster1975 on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 4:22 pm

I'll have a look in the garage when I get home, I bought it from B&Q a few years ago. Nothing special and it doesn't have masses of torque but it's a massive time saver. Think it was MacAllister, £40 reduced from £75 so it was rude not to!
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Vanis
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Re: Front brake overhaul

Post by Vanis on Tue 17 Nov 2015, 5:50 pm

My 2 penn'orth - in case the disc bolts are seized, a bit of persuasion from a blowtorch was required to get some out of the back wheel of my 250 Djebel. A local shop mechanic relieved me of the duty, and probably saved me even more of a headache. I wanted to clean and reuse them but they were stuck fast, and the impact driver was not shifting them. In fact the hex bit was starting to bite into the heads and round them, I cacked myself and bottled it.
Heat the wheel, not the bolts. It's an extreme solution but it was a fairly extreme situation. Hopefully yours won't be.

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