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Valve check/adjustment

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jonny10
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Valve check/adjustment

Post by jonny10 on Sun 25 Oct 2015, 1:11 am

18,000 miles done & need to check valve clearances.
Got quoted £100 by dealer to have the valves checked and if necessary, adjusted, if any are out of spec. Guy on the counter said most of the work is in stripping her down to get at them and then checking the clearances (£75) and it would only be a few quid more (£25-ish) to shim any that's needed.
Does that sound right?? scratch
I thought it was the other way round, that the big work is in the actual adjustment 'cos camshafts have to come out etc etc.
If it sounds kosher I'd be happy to run with that rather than me tackle it myself - would take me ages with my 10 thumbs... 
Watcha think?

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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by sullivj on Sun 25 Oct 2015, 6:51 am

£100 sounds like good value to me. I know people have paid more.

I would ask the shop to give me a list of their measurements, for my own peace of mind.

There is quite a bit of work to get to them. Seat and tank off etc. then the coolant drain, hose removal, rocker cover off..

It is job you can do yourself with a bit of patience, but for £100, I'd probably let them do it, if you're not confident.

There's plenty of info on here about doing them yourself and I exchange shims for people if you need them, or want to donate your old ones to the exchange.
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jerryfudd
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by jerryfudd on Sun 25 Oct 2015, 7:03 am

I'm not sure how they'll do it for that price but if you trust them to do it id say absolutely go for it.

How much they charge for labour per hour will be a varying factor but I'd be surprised if they can get it checked in an hour let alone adjusted plus there will be the price of the coolant which isn't cheap.

I paid my local Honda dealer £210 which is really cheap compared to other places in the area anf that included replacing 3 shims.
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ashcroc
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by ashcroc on Sun 25 Oct 2015, 7:09 am

Camshaft removal isn't that much more work after the head has been stripped to take the measurements. I'd hope the carbs would be balanced too as part of the job.
The measurements should be taken on a cold engine so drop it off the day before if possible. That way they can start early incase they haven't got the right shim in stock & have to order them.

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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by sullivj on Sun 25 Oct 2015, 7:10 am

It may not be a main 'stealer'.  A decent independent could do it in a couple of hours @£35 p/h I would have thought.
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jerryfudd
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by jerryfudd on Sun 25 Oct 2015, 7:13 am

Ah true, I took dealer as a main/Honda dealer.
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jonny10
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by jonny10 on Sun 25 Oct 2015, 10:09 am

jerryfudd wrote:Ah true, I took dealer as a main/Honda dealer.




Sorry jerry, should have said, quote was from Honda dealer - which makes it even stranger to me.
Anyway, seems seriously cheap to me as I believe the shims (if needed) are a few quid and I hadn't thought about coolant either. Also, carb balancing??   
I service the bike myself and I just happened to ask for a quote when buying oil/filter yesterday.
Thing is, bike is running really well and you wouldn't know if valves were touched or not. I suppose it's a question of trust but I just can't see how a dealer could be making money if everything was to be done the way it should be, for that price.
It is too big a job for me - I know my limitations!
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Celt500
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by Celt500 on Sun 25 Oct 2015, 11:26 pm

jonny10 wrote:
It is too big a job for me - I know my limitations!

I've done it myself - there are a few opportunities for things to go expensively wrong alright. I'd say £100 is very fair.

Shims from Honda are about £7 each and there's 8 of them so that can quickly add up. But usually shims can be swapped around so you won't have to buy 8. Generic shims are only a couple of pounds, just not available in such small increments in size as the Honda ones. When I did it I just poured the old coolant straight back in (replaced it since though).

Groan... I'd forgotten the coolant had to be drained and how much other stuff has to come off. I need to take the valve cover off this week to sort a leaking gasket. It's probably quicker with the nekked CB.
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Flyingbrick
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by Flyingbrick on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 10:42 am

I've checked the valve clearance on quite a lot of CBs and apart from the red one I've got every one needed an adjustment. Therefore, it isn't important which part of the job is more difficult. A normal adjustment will take approximately two or three hours.


By the way: the Haynes manual tells you to turn the crankshaft "anti-clockwise" by 180 degrees after checking the clearances at the first cylinder (chapter 1.22.9). This is wrong, it has to be turned 540 degrees to the left or 180 degrees to the right (clockwise). The swiss Bucheli manual says that the required torque for the camshaft bearings is 10 Nm which is incorrect, the correct torque is 12 Nm. What the hell are they doing? This is one of the maintenance jobs that could cause serious trouble if you're making any mistakes, and none of the editors is doing a proper job!
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eternally_troubled
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by eternally_troubled on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 1:15 pm

That's a good price if they actually do the work.

As someone else said, you should ask them for the measurements.  Also take a good look at the valve cover seal - the valve cover has to be removed to do the check, so you might well be able to notice that this has been disturbed (assuming they have done the work).

I suspect that for that price they may not be doing the coolant change or balancing the carbs - you can always ask!
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jonny10
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by jonny10 on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 3:23 pm

eternally_troubled wrote:That's a good price if they actually do the work.
.....
I suspect that for that price they may not be doing the coolant change or balancing the carbs - you can always ask!

My point exactly, never had much trust in dealers TBH and, if a thing seems too good to be true, it usually is.
Goin to get a price from an indie someone was just telling me about who operates out of a wee back yard garage not far from where I work. Apparently, he takes photos of the work in progress so you can see what he's been doin & also calls you up to get approval for any extra £'s that might be needed. Reputation for good work too.
Should be a more competitive labour rate but, whatever, I'd rather pay a guy like that a decent price and know that it was done right.

BTW why would the carbs need balancing as part of the operation?  Don't get that bit....
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jerryfudd
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by jerryfudd on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 3:35 pm

jonny10 wrote:BTW why would the carbs need balancing as part of the operation?  Don't get that bit....

I don't believe they do, its just because with everything out of the way there is easy access to them.
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ashcroc
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by ashcroc on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 3:51 pm

jerryfudd wrote:



jonny10 wrote:BTW why would the carbs need balancing as part of the operation?  Don't get that bit....





I don't believe they do, its just because with everything out of the way there is easy access to them.



You're pretty much spot on. Adjusting the shims will have an effect on exactly when the valves open & close but it shouldn't effect the carb balance.
The carbs just need balancing every 8k miles so with the valves being checked at 16k miles they coincide & it cuts down on labour doing them at the same time.
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Flyingbrick
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by Flyingbrick on Mon 26 Oct 2015, 7:18 pm

jerryfudd wrote:

jonny10 wrote:BTW why would the carbs need balancing as part of the operation?  Don't get that bit....



I don't believe they do, its just because with everything out of the way there is easy access to them.

No, it's because the vacuum depends on the valve clearance. Or, better, it depends whether the valves open and close completely or not. That's why the valve clearance must be checked before balancing the carbs.

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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by sullivj on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 8:11 am

I know 3 of my VCs are slightly out of spec, as I checked them a thousand miles ago.

I finally conceeded that I'm unlikely to find the time to sort this out myself, so dropped the bike off to a recommended chap on my route to a family holiday. He's a Honda trained mechanic, and has quoted £100 (ish). The (ish) being dependant on how many need changing. He's also balancing the carbs, and noting down the measurements for me.

I collect it on Friday. I'm interested to see if there will be any noticeable change to the engine.

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Jameshambleton
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by Jameshambleton on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 8:17 am


In this image we can see an immaculate motorcycle that is soon to be covered in oily fingerprints Wink

sullivj
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by sullivj on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 9:59 am

Haha - stop it James... I'm struggling to sleep as it is, knowing that Tango is with another man!!
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jerryfudd
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by jerryfudd on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 10:08 am

Tango has been with many, MANY other men... Laughing


sullivj wrote:I collect it on Friday. I'm interested to see if there will be any noticeable change to the engine.

I noticed when I picked mine up and still every time I ride it now, its much smoother and comes onto power better.

Dan
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Jameshambleton
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by Jameshambleton on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 10:25 am

Dan, I think you need to get hold of some lime green decals before persay Friday...
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jerryfudd
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by jerryfudd on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 10:58 am

Bold assumption thinking it'll be back on one piece by then...... Rolling EyesLaughingLaughingLaughing
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Jameshambleton
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by Jameshambleton on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 11:21 am

I wonder if he'll take it out for a spin.... IN THE RAIN!!!
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skyrider
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by skyrider on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 7:05 pm

what and following a tractor pulling a muck spreader Laughing Laughing

sullivj
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by sullivj on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 7:17 pm

"MAKE THEM STOP"...!

I thought that being on holiday would be a distraction from the thought that someone has his hand inside one of my most treasured possessions, but no!!!!
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Jameshambleton
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by Jameshambleton on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 7:45 pm

What makes you think that it'll only be his hands inside of her? Think of all the places in the wheels it'll be able to get in and on the front of the engine in that really hard part to clean, oh and the rear shocks all of those corners Laughing
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skyrider
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Re: Valve check/adjustment

Post by skyrider on Tue 27 Oct 2015, 7:52 pm

strewth sulli is certainly going to need his Horlicks tonight Neutral

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