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Monstrous fail

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TheWizardofOdds
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Monstrous fail

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Wed 30 Sep 2015, 7:55 pm

I had a first chance to look over my bike today since buying it on Saturday. It started up nicely and was ticking over well when I glanced down at the number stamped on the engine. That's when my blood ran cold. I forgot to check the frame/engine number in my rush to get it home. F@#k. Well you might have guessed, they don't match of course. He saw me coming. I believe I overpayed for the bike as its really in very poor shape and has been thoroughly neglected. Now I know I really overpayed. I've checked it out on eBay and I have next to no chance of any claim against this character. I'm 100% sure he knew full well. I asked him in our discourse before buying if it was accident damaged or a write off he said no. It might not be, maybe the engine just bloody well blew up. All I know is its not the original one. 
I feel a right mug I can tell you. Ive been thinking about it though and strangely I'm not bothered regarding the bike, it runs great from what I can tell and I really have no intention of selling it on. I wanted a project that I could learn about maintenance on and get a bike with a reputation for reliability, handling, economy etc. I can certainly learn now. What I'm most disappointed about after my own stupidity is that someone would do that. I have many faults but one thing I am, is honest. Almost pathologically. I just wouldn't do it. I've contacted the geezer but he'll almost certainly ignore my emails. I gave him good feedback on ebay too. Should I amend that now, or suck it up, laying the blame squarely at my own feet?

Anyone? geek Embarassed
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skyrider
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by skyrider on Wed 30 Sep 2015, 8:23 pm

I bet you feel really down about it, the guy could at least have mentioned the fact that the bike had an engine swap that's if he knew did he say how long he had  owned the bike for
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wornsprokets
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by wornsprokets on Wed 30 Sep 2015, 8:27 pm

I assume you did not do a hpi check, some bikes engine numbers do not match frame ones, how much did u pay for cb,  if bike runs good and engines fine its not too bad, once frame matches v5, if your worried bikes been crashed hard look at lock stops if there damaged bikes been down hard but its not end of world. Its easly to get carried away when buying a bike, its easly done are u sure theres no come back with ebay. Lads on here wil help u with any problems with bike. We learn from our mistakes. Cb a great bike,
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teamster1975
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by teamster1975 on Wed 30 Sep 2015, 8:31 pm

Don't kick yourself too much. I swapped the engine in mine a few years ago because the head gasket had gone and I had a spare lump that I'd bought for silly money and kept as a spare.
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skyrider
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by skyrider on Wed 30 Sep 2015, 8:40 pm

overall if you are happy with the machine it runs ok and you got it for handy money I wouldn't worry about it but having said that the previous owner could have been a bit more honest
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ashcroc
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by ashcroc on Wed 30 Sep 2015, 8:52 pm

Engine & frame numbers rarely if ever match. They just took a lump off the shelf & stuck it in the frame on manufacture. So long as the engine number matches the V5 chances are you may have the original one.
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steady Eddy
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by steady Eddy on Wed 30 Sep 2015, 9:06 pm

i doubt anyone would go to the bother of putting a good engine in a bad bike, so if its all running and feeling ok your prob going to be fine even if its not the original engine.

CB's can go for an absolute snip of what mines worth to me and if you decide to keep it for a long time it will more than pay for itself.
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jerryfudd
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by jerryfudd on Thu 01 Oct 2015, 9:41 am

I'd agree with what's been said, unless the numbers don't match the v5 - and even then I'm pretty sure the only real important one is the frame number.

Also (which has also been said) they last forever and there is very little that can't be corrected. The parts are also reasonably priced and not too hard to get hold of.

My advice is take it for a ride, let it put a smile on your face, know it's yours and the whole experience will seem like just something to look out for in the future.

(trust me I speak from experience - Rolling Eyes )
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TheWizardofOdds
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Thu 01 Oct 2015, 10:10 am

@jerryfudd wrote:I'd agree with what's been said, unless the numbers don't match the v5 - and even then I'm pretty sure the only real important one is the frame number.

Also (which has also been said) they last forever and there is very little that can't be corrected. The parts are also reasonably priced and not too hard to get hold of.

My advice is take it for a ride, let it put a smile on your face, know it's yours and the whole experience will seem like just something to look out for in the future.

(trust me I speak from experience - Rolling Eyes  )

Sound advice, and that's exactly what I done yesterday.  Very Happy
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TheWizardofOdds
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Thu 01 Oct 2015, 10:14 am

@skyrider wrote:I bet you feel really down about it, the guy could at least have mentioned the fact that the bike had an engine swap that's if he knew did he say how long he had  owned the bike for

He says its news to him. I highly doubt that. I think he owned the bike a while, maybe a year or two but he never rode it. He only done a hundred miles on it.
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trevor machine
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by trevor machine on Thu 01 Oct 2015, 10:18 am

Both my bikes have mismatching numbers - one I know for sure is original. It only had 8k on it when I bought it and it was absolutely mint from stem to stern. Almost too good to ride! Needless to say I put 20k on it and smashed it to pieces last September (happy ending - it's now been completely rebuilt and is if anything better than it was before, and is due to return to the fleet tomorrow).

Knowing that the job would take a long time because it was being done for a *very* good price by a mate, I set about buying another. Came across one w/ 30k on it for £750 - looked well enough, rode straight, so bought it. Now got 46k on it. Thing is not only do the numbers not match, but the lump # isn't right with the V5 either. Strange thing is, even though it's something of a Frankenbike, it rides better than the 8k minter. Less vibration at both high and low speeds, and when it hits 6.5 - 7k, I swear it's faster. Comes alive in a way the younger, newer, mollycoddled other bike didn't. So - it might not be the looker the other is, but I know which I'd keep if I had to flog one of 'em.

Also, another important difference between the two - the transmission. I had five or six false neutrals on the newer, low miles bike - and I've yet to encounter a single on in nearly 20k on the older, molested bike. Indeed, it was immediately apparent to me that the gearboxes were different. The older one has no discernible play in the selector, and has a pleasant springy, almost spongy feel to it - a really smooth, easy-yet-definite action throughout the range. By contrast, the newer, younger bike's action is somehow less positive.

Both are Italian assembled - the older one is green, and afaik was the first to come out of Italy. It's something of a halfway house because it has the blanked off fork drain, but the rear drum brake. I may be wrong but I think it is best regarded as more Japanese than Italian assembled. It's like, as the process got further underway, the Italians took on more of the assembly tasks. Why do I say this? Simply because my later, Titanium (is that what the colour's called? That dark silvery grey one - stupidly referred to as fucking beige on the log book) one has such a comparatively ropey gearbox. But I suppose that, more realistically, there are just simply good and not-so-good bikes.

All I'm saying is please, please don't be pissed off until you've properly got the measure of the bike. These engines are almost as good as any mass produced engine ever devised, regardless of era, application or anything else. By any criteria they are a very strong, robust motor. There are more powerful ones, simpler ones, more complex ones - but whether its the bike's first or third engine, it will in all probability work as it should. Short of total abuse and neglect - which no motor can withstand - it'll be absolutely fine. Get some miles on it. You'll soon be wondering where your buyer's remorse was coming from.
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jerryfudd
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by jerryfudd on Thu 01 Oct 2015, 10:19 am

@TheWizardofOdds wrote:

@skyrider wrote:I bet you feel really down about it, the guy could at least have mentioned the fact that the bike had an engine swap that's if he knew did he say how long he had  owned the bike for

He says its news to him. I highly doubt that. I think he owned the bike a while, maybe a year or two but he never rode it. He only done a hundred miles on it.

...trying to see the best in people I guess it's possible - I've never checked the numbers on any of the bikes I've bought and have done thousands of miles on them.

but then the guy that sold me my CB is on this thread Smile
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TheWizardofOdds
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Thu 01 Oct 2015, 10:24 am

I bought it for a grand, including a renntec rack and topbox. It's not about the money at all. It just irks me that he got about four or five hundred more than he deserves. Dishonesty really bothers me. 
The frame and the v5 match, the engine has a different number. No, I didn't get it hpi'd. Serves me right, although when I got my last bike hpi'd no engine number was stated. 
Thanks for all the comments. I'm sure you can multi-quote but that's beyond me at the moment. Like putting photos up.  Laughing
I'll certainly enjoy this bike and can't wait to get home and ride it. As a side note, I took it out yesterday for a short 20 min ride and the temp gauge needle moved up a quarter. When I brought it home nearly a hundred miles it never budged.
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by jerryfudd on Thu 01 Oct 2015, 10:26 am

did it come with much history?
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TheWizardofOdds
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Thu 01 Oct 2015, 10:36 am

@trevor machine wrote:... Short of total abuse and neglect - which no motor can withstand - it'll be absolutely fine. Get some miles on it. You'll soon be wondering where your buyer's remorse was coming from.

Thanks. An interesting history there with your bikes. I laughed when you mentioned that it's described as beige. I really like the green CB's, I'd of bought one if there was a good one going. 
The bike looks neglected. If it was in good nick with a different engine it would put me at ease. I'll get it there bit by bit though and it will be great fun.
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TheWizardofOdds
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Thu 01 Oct 2015, 10:38 am

@jerryfudd wrote:did it come with much history?

Interestingly it came with a hell of a lot more than I'm used to just a very big gap in the service history. It's all old stuff. It came with the original service book, lots of stamps, owners manual and a handful of MOTs.
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by eternally_troubled on Thu 01 Oct 2015, 12:44 pm

If it rides fine and you enjoy it then I wouldn't worry too much even if you did over-pay - you can earn more money!

Did you mention that the engine number on the bike and on the V5 didn't match?  If so then you should contact the DVLA - I suspect that you can get the V5 updated with the new engine number.


I agree with you about being honest, sadly you have to be prepared for those who are not quite as honest - they are out there and some of them sell motorbikes.


Anyway - it's definable not an epic fail - you bought a CB500, which is always good :)
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trevor machine
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by trevor machine on Thu 01 Oct 2015, 2:15 pm

@TheWizardofOdds wrote:

@trevor machine wrote:... Short of total abuse and neglect - which no motor can withstand - it'll be absolutely fine. Get some miles on it. You'll soon be wondering where your buyer's remorse was coming from.



Thanks. An interesting history there with your bikes. I laughed when you mentioned that it's described as beige. I really like the green CB's, I'd of bought one if there was a good one going. 
The bike looks neglected. If it was in good nick with a different engine it would put me at ease. I'll get it there bit by bit though and it will be great fun.

Is that the bike in your avatar pic thingy? If so, it doesn't look neglected. Can't see properly from that size image though. But from the little I can see it doesn't seem too bad at all.
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TheWizardofOdds
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Thu 01 Oct 2015, 2:20 pm

@eternally_troubled wrote:If it rides fine and you enjoy it then I wouldn't worry too much even if you did over-pay - you can earn more money!

Did you mention that the engine number on the bike and on the V5 didn't match?  If so then you should contact the DVLA - I suspect that you can get the V5 updated with the new engine number.


I agree with you about being honest, sadly you have to be prepared for those who are not quite as honest - they are out there and some of them sell motorbikes.


Anyway - it's definable not an epic fail - you bought a CB500, which is always good Smile

I'm waiting for the v5. If it comes with that number on it then I'll be amazed. Although, somebody could've changed it already. I'll get the stuff later and have a proper look, I think it was only the frame number that was documented. 
You're right: not an epic fail at all. Just me being a drama queen.  Very Happy
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TheWizardofOdds
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by TheWizardofOdds on Thu 01 Oct 2015, 2:26 pm

@trevor machine wrote:




Is that the bike in your avatar pic thingy? If so, it doesn't look neglected. Can't see properly from that size image though. But from the little I can see it doesn't seem too bad at all.
It's not a great pic being taken on a phone and an avatar. The bike is flattered in photos. Up close theres issues all over it. I would say the only thing to pass muster is suspiciously good paint/bodywork. It is what it is though and I'm armed to the teeth with Haynes manuals. Bring it on!
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stoney!
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by stoney! on Thu 01 Oct 2015, 2:43 pm

I never remember to check engine numbers lol! is yours this one?

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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by Guest on Thu 01 Oct 2015, 4:12 pm

I too paid too much when I gave the guy €1000 for a 28k kilometres ex-commuter CB, simply because it was really not well maintained at all. But now little by little as I keep making improvements the bike is just great! So far I've changed, oil and oil-filter, air and sub-airfilter, spark-plugs, throttle cables, fixed rear indicators properly, new front caliper seals and brake-oil change, added a OEM tool set, new headlight bulb, small windscreen, fitted crashbars and had the engine bolts out (phew...) and this winter thinking about changing sprokkets and chain, carb clean and balance and perhaps, just perhaps shims... oh yeah and all the green is now mattblack Smile . Indeed a small fortune so far but as you said yourself, I'm learning about motorbikes and it seems like the CB is really happy with its new owner... there you go.
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ashcroc
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by ashcroc on Thu 01 Oct 2015, 7:27 pm

@jerryfudd wrote:

@TheWizardofOdds wrote:



@skyrider wrote:I bet you feel really down about it, the guy could at least have mentioned the fact that the bike had an engine swap that's if he knew did he say how long he had  owned the bike for



He says its news to him. I highly doubt that. I think he owned the bike a while, maybe a year or two but he never rode it. He only done a hundred miles on it.



...trying to see the best in people I guess it's possible - I've never checked the numbers on any of the bikes I've bought and have done thousands of miles on them.

but then the guy that sold me my CB is on this thread Smile

Hehe

Unlike you I did check the numbers when I got it.  While they matched the V5 they didn't match each other.  With all the service history that came with it I've no reason to believe it isn't the original engine.

Re: wizards bike,
Even if the engine has been changed I wouldn't let it bother me. If I were buying a classic to keep wrapped up in cotton wool it might be a different story but as a user I'd prefer a working one that's had a transplant over a dodgy one with original bits.
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ashcroc
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by ashcroc on Thu 01 Oct 2015, 7:45 pm

@trevor machine wrote:Both my bikes have mismatching numbers - one I know for sure is original. It only had 8k on it when I bought it and it was absolutely mint from stem to stern. Almost too good to ride! Needless to say I put 20k on it and smashed it to pieces last September (happy ending - it's now been completely rebuilt and is if anything better than it was before, and is due to return to the fleet tomorrow).

Knowing that the job would take a long time because it was being done for a *very* good price by a mate, I set about buying another. Came across one w/ 30k on it for £750 - looked well enough, rode straight, so bought it. Now got 46k on it. Thing is not only do the numbers not match, but the lump # isn't right with the V5 either. Strange thing is, even though it's something of a Frankenbike, it rides better than the 8k minter. Less vibration at both high and low speeds, and when it hits 6.5 - 7k, I swear it's faster. Comes alive in a way the younger, newer, mollycoddled other bike didn't. So - it might not be the looker the other is, but I know which I'd keep if I had to flog one of 'em.

Also, another important difference between the two - the transmission. I had five or six false neutrals on the newer, low miles bike - and I've yet to encounter a single on in nearly 20k on the older, molested bike. Indeed, it was immediately apparent to me that the gearboxes were different. The older one has no discernible play in the selector, and has a pleasant springy, almost spongy feel to it - a really smooth, easy-yet-definite action throughout the range. By contrast, the newer, younger bike's action is somehow less positive.

Both are Italian assembled - the older one is green, and afaik was the first to come out of Italy. It's something of a halfway house because it has the blanked off fork drain, but the rear drum brake. I may be wrong but I think it is best regarded as more Japanese than Italian assembled. It's like, as the process got further underway, the Italians took on more of the assembly tasks. Why do I say this? Simply because my later, Titanium (is that what the colour's called? That dark silvery grey one - stupidly referred to as fucking beige on the log book) one has such a comparatively ropey gearbox. But I suppose that, more realistically, there are just simply good and not-so-good bikes.

All I'm saying is please, please don't be pissed off until you've properly got the measure of the bike. These engines are almost as good as any mass produced engine ever devised, regardless of era, application or anything else. By any criteria they are a very strong, robust motor. There are more powerful ones, simpler ones, more complex ones - but whether its the bike's first or third engine, it will in all probability work as it should. Short of total abuse and neglect - which no motor can withstand - it'll be absolutely fine. Get some miles on it. You'll soon be wondering where your buyer's remorse was coming from.

The 96T is a bit of a strange beast.  While it was assembled in Italy, many of the parts will have been shipped over from Japan when they moved production including (I suspect) the ready assembled engine & gearbox so it's dificult to put definitively in either camp.
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wornsprokets
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Re: Monstrous fail

Post by wornsprokets on Thu 01 Oct 2015, 8:00 pm

The worst thing i think u can have is a mint bike, then u wont use it in bad weather and u mothball it by not using it. Bikes do not take well being left up corrosion in engine, and your right trevor machine, a well used bike goes and runs and preforms better than any bike thats constantly being left up. I am having the same with my near mint 96 fireblade , i keep saying to my self i am going to sell it, as one of my wrists is bit knackered and it can be uncomfortable. But when i ride it i remember why i wanted one since i  was 16. My wife hates the blade( had her on back one day coming over hump back bridge  she got a bit airborne i forgot she was on back) she loves my green cb Smile
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