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My Track bike project

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ANDYC
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by ANDYC on Mon 31 Oct 2016, 8:44 pm

Wiseco forged pistons arrived today!
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eternally_troubled
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by eternally_troubled on Tue 01 Nov 2016, 8:05 am

ANDYC wrote:Wiseco forged pistons arrived today!

Cool! This is going to be the fastest CB on the planet when you've finished ;)
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ANDYC
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by ANDYC on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 1:36 pm


They even have their own bags!!!
I'm beginning to think that I should have waited for the US dollar to fall before getting them Very Happy
New bearings ordered for the balancer shaft, crankshaft and big ends.
At over £200 for the bearings alone, and add another £100 for gaskets and seals. I can understand why people just buy a complete engine and hope for the best.
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Tricky.
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by Tricky. on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 6:33 pm

ANDYC wrote:
They even have their own bags!!!
I'm beginning to think that I should have waited for the US dollar to fall before getting them Very Happy
New bearings ordered for the balancer shaft, crankshaft and big ends.
At over £200 for the bearings alone, and add another £100 for gaskets and seals. I can understand why people just buy a complete engine and hope for the best.


Cool Shocked Very Happy
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Beresford
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by Beresford on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 6:59 pm


At over £200 for the bearings alone, and add another £100 for gaskets and seals. I can understand why people just buy a complete engine and hope for the best.

Oh I did laugh. When you think that Honda built an engine that would rev to 10K all day every day without complaint. Ferrari engines with the same cylinder geometry were good for maybe 7.5k before big bills kicked in !
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bikermikey1
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by bikermikey1 on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 11:17 am

enjoyed reading through all this mate!

you said you have a 160 rear tyre on your work bike, is that on the standard wheel?

Mikey
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ANDYC
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by ANDYC on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 12:34 pm

No, I have used a rear wheel from a CBR400RR (NC29) for many years to accept radials.
As well as a CBR600 front end. Completely transforms the handling. Very Happy
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bikermikey1
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by bikermikey1 on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 12:36 pm

ANDYC wrote:No, I have used a rear wheel from a CBR400RR (NC29) for many years to accept radials.
As well as a CBR600 front end. Completely transforms the handling. Very Happy

cbs are light, how well do you warm up big tyres ?
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ANDYC
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by ANDYC on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 12:58 pm

Realistically they are the same as the fireblade at about 170kg. radials warm up quickly but don't overheat, especially as we are down on the power stakes. so I could run sticky tyres but still get more mileage out of them.
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bikermikey1
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by bikermikey1 on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 1:35 pm

ok thanks :-)
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trophydave
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by trophydave on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 3:44 pm

How much hassle was involved in fitting the rear wheel and front end?
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ANDYC
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by ANDYC on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 4:55 pm

Beresford wrote:








At over £200 for the bearings alone, and add another £100 for gaskets and seals. I can understand why people just buy a complete engine and hope for the best.





Oh I did laugh. When you think that Honda built an engine that would rev to 10K all day every day without complaint. Ferrari engines with the same cylinder geometry were good for maybe 7.5k before big bills kicked in !


To be fair as far as I know these were in the 3 litre V12 engines which were built in the early 1960's. Early Honda's had a healthy appetite for con rods amongst other things. It will be interesting to see how far I can push the engine out of its comfort zone before it loses its reliability status.
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ANDYC
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by ANDYC on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 6:15 pm

trophydave wrote:How much hassle was involved in fitting the rear wheel and front end?


Not too much really the front end from the cbr600f 2 bolts straight in. The rear wheel needs either spacers made as the wheel bearings are larger than the original spindle. Or have the swingarm/chain adjusters and brake carrier machined to suit a larger spindle from a cbr600f.  If you want a larger tyre than a 150 you will have to lose or modify the centrestand. The front sprocket needs to be spaced out by 5mm. rear nc29 sprocket is 39 tooth but makes little difference to the gearing. cb disc bolts straight on.
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ANDYC
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by ANDYC on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 4:13 pm

A bit of an update.
Now that I don't use my work bike to commute to work, I have decided to use it as a test mule for a couple of mods.
These will eventually be on the track bike, but testing on the road is much cheaper than on a dyno.


These are the 38mm fireblade carbs fitted to the bike and I have managed to sort out the jetting for the slow running circuit, so it idles and picks up OK. That will have to be finalised once the other jetting is sorted as they will have a big effect on it.

This is the programmable CDI unit that allows me to alter the ignition curve and the rev limiter as well as other things.

This is what the CDI program looks like hooked up to my PC. I have changed some of the values at the top end and the rev limit to 11.5k. Full advance was originally 33 degrees. It should be interesting to see how it all turns out.
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ANDYC
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by ANDYC on Thu 24 Nov 2016, 2:47 pm

Well I have to admit that I was shocked when I checked the weight of my rear wheel set-up today Shocked
Even with an alloy 520 sprocket, alloy spacer, titanium bolts and a race tyre 180/55/17, the fireblade wheel added up to a whopping 15.05kg.
With the standard steel sprocket and studs and a 160/60/17 road tyre my nc29 rear wheel weighed in at 3kg lighter. So there is room for improvement on that one.
I can't see that the extra 20mm of rubber is going to outweigh the 3kg difference so I think the 160 will be gracing the rear of the bike from now on.
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Beresford
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by Beresford on Thu 24 Nov 2016, 6:00 pm

Courage of your convictions !!! Come on. Be the first to put carbon wheels on a CB500.
Twisted Evil
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ANDYC
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by ANDYC on Thu 24 Nov 2016, 7:18 pm

They will have to come at a later date! but they are on my list.
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mart
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by mart on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 1:27 pm

ANDYC, is it “SPARKER DC-CDI-P2 race” CDI from Ignitech? And could you please tell more about those pistons from Wiseco; model, size, compression ratio? One month ago I asked to Wiseco if they have pistons for CB500, but they replied that they don’t have and I have to order custom pistons (12 pieces).
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ANDYC
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by ANDYC on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 6:08 pm

mart wrote:ANDYC, is it “SPARKER DC-CDI-P2 race” CDI from Ignitech? And could you please tell more about those pistons from Wiseco; model, size, compression ratio? One month ago I asked to Wiseco if they have pistons for CB500, but they replied that they don’t have and I have to order custom pistons (12 pieces)


It's a Honda TCI unit from Ignitech, I didn't bother with the more advanced one as we don't have a throttle position sensor etc.
The pistons came from America, they were listed on Ebay as 73mm Fireblade pistons.
For some reason I can't put a link to it.
They are for the 93-97 models
73mm bore
12:1 C/R
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ANDYC
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by ANDYC on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 6:58 pm

Beresford wrote:Courage of your convictions !!! Come on. Be the first to put carbon wheels on a CB500.
Twisted Evil


I was in touch with the Dymag dealer today (bank card in my trembling hand)
[size=46]Although they list the carbon fibre wheels for the NC29 they won't actually work. The hugger and chain guard will foul the tyre. They reckoned that the bike would be over tyred with a 180 section. [/size]
[size=46]I'm sure that I heard my bank card give a sigh of relief  Very Happy [/size]
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ANDYC
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by ANDYC on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 6:59 pm

I have no idea where the size46 thing is from
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ANDYC
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by ANDYC on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 4:09 pm

A bit of an update now, as I actually feel as though progress is being made Very Happy 
After finding out about the Dymags not being suitable, I have gone back to my original choice of NC29 rear and SP1 front on the wheels. These are now wrapped and ready to be collected tomorrow and off to be painted.
Tyres have been ordered, Pirelli diablo supercorsa's 120 and 160 in the sc1 soft compound.
I also treated it to a Galfer rear disc.
A Nitron R2 track shock has been ordered to suit.
New bearings and seals for the swingarm, and to round off the back end a Tyga carbon fibre hugger/ chainguard.

At the front end I decided that clip-ons wern't going to suit my riding style so I ordered a custom top  yoke to fit the fireblade lower one which will allow normal handlebars to be fitted.
A radial master cylinder from a CBR1000rr will hopefully grace the bars, when I decide which ones to use that is, depending on how well it works with the calipers I have.
The new seals for the calipers arrived so I shall rebuild those when I have time.

I decided not to use the pod type filters and it's now going to use a modified airbox. It runs suprisingly well at my 1st jetting run, which I have to admit was purely based on an experienced guess. It only revved to 8.5k on my 1st ride out so I have got some new larger main jets to try now.
This is using a standard CDI as a starting point, I can adjust the ignition curve once the jetting is correct.
I'll still have to modify the fuel tank, but at present it looks like I can fit the airbox in the rear of the fuel tank space whilst retaining space for fuel in the front section. It will be obviously a smaller capacity tank, but it eliminates the need for a fuel tank under the seat. Which would have been a smaller capacity one anyway.
I will if all goes to plan, build up the engine next week. I'll try and get some pictures up along the way. Very Happy
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ratatooie
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by ratatooie on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 5:27 pm

ANDYC wrote:
I decided not to use the pod type filters and it's now going to use a modified airbox. It runs suprisingly well at my 1st jetting run, which I have to admit was purely based on an experienced guess. It only revved to 8.5k on my 1st ride out so I have got some new larger main jets to try now.

What was your reasoning against the pods? Not running right I assume. This has me a bit worried given this is the way I am going, although granted I am no planning to go racing any time soon!
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ANDYC
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by ANDYC on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 5:51 pm

I plan to eventually try to incorporate a cold air feed and pressurised system. So I decided to make space for it now rather than later. it was running just the same on the pod filters because the modded airbox that I'm using is flowing as much air as the pod filters would. I'll put up a picture and you'll see why.
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ANDYC
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Re: My Track bike project

Post by ANDYC on Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:31 pm

ANDYC wrote:I plan to eventually try to incorporate a cold air feed and pressurised system. So I decided to make space for it now rather than later. it was running just the same on the pod filters because the modded airbox that I'm using is flowing as much air as the pod filters would. I'll put up a picture and you'll see why.








The filter is a k+n one for a Triumph TT600. For absolutely no reason other than it was the exact size that I needed Very Happy
It works in a normal twin shock CB500 as you would expect, I can also turn it upside down (with extended hoses to the carbs) and it sits in the rear of the fuel tank shell.
It has plenty of scope for improvement but it gives me a good starting point.

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