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Replacing Ignition Lock

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jerryfudd
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jerryfudd on Sun 26 Jul 2015, 10:20 am

Super secret fuel cut off valve on the bike somewhere? either that or a cheap alarm/immobiliser?

I had a datatool s4 on my CBF which I removed and repurposed onto the CB before the insurance salvage guys took it away
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jerryfudd
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jerryfudd on Sun 26 Jul 2015, 10:23 am

btw there is an ignition live that feeds into the ecu maybe by having a switch on that? or a switch on the coil feed?

also have you seen the 'dis-car-nect' systems? they probably do them for bikes also.....
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geoffnorfolk
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by geoffnorfolk on Sun 26 Jul 2015, 10:55 am

On my CB500r, the fan definitely doesn't work when the ignition is off and if you look at the Haynes manual and what is connected when the switch is on/off, it appears toconfirm that. Whilst the live feed from the ignition switch (the one you want to install a switch in) feeds into the fuse box and then goes through 3 fuses totally 35A, this is the power that is required to blow all 3 fuses.... not the current that will be running through the switch which in reality, will be more like a third that, so your new switch will be absolutely fine there. As Jerry says, the live lead that goes from the fusebox, number 4 fuse on the wiring diagram 10A, goes to the ECU via the kill switch. Putting your switch in this wire, effectively in series with the killswitch, (as suggested by ashcroc), looks like your best solution. At least you'll still have some lights if the switch fails.
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jerryfudd
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jerryfudd on Sun 26 Jul 2015, 10:58 am

believe iirc the wire in question to the ecu is black with a white trace on it as I had to plumb the alarm onto it
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jimbobs63
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jimbobs63 on Sun 26 Jul 2015, 12:34 pm

Another idea:

If I go with the second option to fit the switch between the Starter Button and the starter relay, then I could make it a two-way switch, so that whenever the starter switch is pressed with the secret switch in the "off" position, the current is re-routed and it sounds the horn instead of turning the starter motor!

That would make the thief jump!  He's broken the disk lock, and the shackle chain and now has got round to drilling out the ignition lock so that the steering lock is disabled.  he now hot-wires it and all the lights come on.  He checks the Stop Switch, thinks he's all set to go and goes to press the Starter Button - and the horn sounds!

Hope it gives him a heart-attack!!

Jim (feeling evil...)
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jimbobs63
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jimbobs63 on Sun 26 Jul 2015, 12:45 pm

... or another modification of the above:

Put the two-way secret switch between the Stop Switch and the Ignition Control Circuit, with the feed redirected to the horn.  So, every time the Stop Switch is set to "go" with the secret switch in the "off" position, it sounds the horn until the Stop Switch is turned off.  The thief then couldn't even start it by Starter Button or bump starting!

I think this might be the best option.... unless anyone has a better plan?

Jim
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jimbobs63
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jimbobs63 on Sat 01 Aug 2015, 12:26 pm

Good afternoon,

I fitted my secret switch this morning.

On looking at the options, how easy each one would be, and how confident I felt about doing it, I went for option 1:

That is, I cut into the feed from the ignition switch to the fuse box that drives the starter, ignition circuits and most of the lights (except the headlight).  

I then fitted a toggle switch (with LED indicator) onto the battery cover under the seat.  The toggle switch has three connectors.  Two are the send and return feeds that sit in line with the cut feed to the fusebox, and the third is a ground which I connected to the negative terminal of the battery (only used to drive the indicator LED).

With it all fitted, this is how it works.

With the secret switch off, and the ignition key switch to on, only the headlight comes on.  No other indicator lights (oil pressure, neutral, side stand) are on.  The starter won't turn on the button, nor can you bump start it as the ignition circuit has been disabled.

Switch the secret switch to on, and with the ignition key switch on the LED indicator on the secret switch lights up, as do all instrument indicator lights as normal and the bike will start on the button!

Shame I couldn't have done one of the other two options that incorporated the horn sounding on this first attempt, but still pleased with the effort.  If I had wanted to do either of the two other options I thought about, it would have involved messing around with the wiring loom inside the headlamp bowl, and sending a pair of feeders wires under the tank and back to the under-seat compartment to fit the switch there.  May do that for a second attempt if I feel more confident...!

I have taken loads of photos on my iPhone showing what I did this morning if anyone is interested.

Jim
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jerryfudd
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jerryfudd on Sat 01 Aug 2015, 12:53 pm

always interested, get those pics up and some text in the workshop guides section Smile
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jimbobs63
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jimbobs63 on Sat 01 Aug 2015, 1:04 pm

OK Jerry - will do!

Jim
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wornsprokets
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by wornsprokets on Sat 01 Aug 2015, 4:20 pm

Yes it be great to see few pics of your wiring modifications,
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jimbobs63
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jimbobs63 on Sat 01 Aug 2015, 4:27 pm

OK wornsprockets, I've uploaded a Workshop Guide with photos.

Jim
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geoffnorfolk
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by geoffnorfolk on Sat 01 Aug 2015, 10:33 pm

Whilst an immobilizer secret switch could be useful for a car, I'm not so sure of the benefit with a bike.............. over the last few years, I've had 3 bikes stolen from my driveway, one from work. In all cases, the bikes had their steering locks on and must have just been lifted into the back of a van. One of the bikes was chained through the front wheel and they just nicked the bike and left me a front wheel!! I've finally learnt my lesson and now use a decent ground anchor and chain on the driveway.
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jerryfudd
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jerryfudd on Sat 01 Aug 2015, 11:07 pm

can't hurt to have more than one security device I'd say....
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jimbobs63
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jimbobs63 on Sun 02 Aug 2015, 8:57 am

Hi,

As you will see from a previous thread I posted, my bike was simply nicked by joyriders who drilled out both the steering lock and the disk lock, then hot-wired it to ride it away.

Anything to make that harder has got to be a good thing, hence the secret switch idea.

Of course it won't stop the most persistent professional thieves from simply cutting through any chains, etc., and lifting the bike into a van.  But would they really do that for my slightly tatty CB500?

No, I'm more at risk from joyriders, and now I'm less at risk.  Especially as I am back in the habit of using a chain lock as well as a disk lock, and together with my new switch.

Jim
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Jameshambleton
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by Jameshambleton on Sun 02 Aug 2015, 9:46 am

What disc lock was you using?
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jimbobs63
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jimbobs63 on Sun 02 Aug 2015, 6:41 pm

You know, I don't even remember the make/model...! Sorry
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jimbobs63
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jimbobs63 on Mon 03 Aug 2015, 9:21 am

Jeez, my memory! I think I'm going senile sometimes....!

I happened to look under my waterproofs in my topbox this morning as I was getting ready to ride to work, and guess what I found?  My disk lock!  I hadn't put it on when my bike was nicked!!  Doh!

At the time the bike was nicked I had been raking my brain to remember whether I had put the disk lock on, but by the time I recovered my bike from the police pound I had become convinced that it must have been removed by the thieves, especially as it wasn't under the seat where I normally store it when not in use. 

Anyway, I got another disk lock I had acquired out of storage and started using it instead.

In other words, I don't know if the disk lock would have been enough to put off the dickhead who stole my bike and whether adding my secret switch has just been a waste of time...!


Jim
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jerryfudd
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jerryfudd on Mon 03 Aug 2015, 9:44 am

would never say adding another security measure is a waste of time
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wornsprokets
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by wornsprokets on Mon 03 Aug 2015, 9:56 am

I had disc lock  on front and lock on rear sproket when i found the bike , the front disc was in L shape  and rear sproket too  bent over , so stupid c--ts couldnt ride bike anyway  even though they had butchered ignition had it going and badly damaged clocks and head light and had it running but couldnt ride bike(wasnt cb first bike) i think u locks are better
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eternally_troubled
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by eternally_troubled on Mon 03 Aug 2015, 12:32 pm

@geoffnorfolk wrote:Whilst an immobilizer secret switch could be useful for a car, I'm not so sure of the benefit with a bike.............. over the last few years, I've had 3 bikes stolen from my driveway, one from work. In all cases, the bikes had their steering locks on and must have just been lifted into the back of a van. One of the bikes was chained through the front wheel and they just nicked the bike and left me a front wheel!! I've finally learnt my lesson and now use a decent ground anchor and chain on the driveway.

Bastards!

Some people will nick anything - no kind of alarm, lock or immobiliser will stop these kind of people as they will come with a van and mates to give them a hand.

The suggestions here are designed to stop more opportunist thieves and joyriders who don't have the time, knowledge or tools and will be relatively easily put off.

Personally I can't really see why anyone would want to steal my somewhat scabby 17 year-old black-ish CB500.
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wornsprokets
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by wornsprokets on Mon 03 Aug 2015, 2:10 pm

Ah trust me they will, the bike i had was an mbx 80 and amount off effort to steal aand damage it , alot slower than cb, once it go and they can have fun til it blows up and strip for parts, a good shape forks engine panels wheels all worth robbing for parts. I am always weary of buying second hand parts  unless its legitimate sources
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jimbobs63
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jimbobs63 on Mon 03 Aug 2015, 4:11 pm

Yeah, when I was told my bike had been found, I certainly expected to find it smashed up, with bits missing, and probably an insurance write off, but I guess I was lucky!

Jim
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Droid
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by Droid on Tue 04 Oct 2016, 5:19 pm

@davebike500 wrote:If it still got break off bolts fitted  It is a bit of a pain
You need to unplug switch and remove the top Yoke
With the yoke on the bench  there are a number of ways to remove the bolts 
I  drill a 3mm hole and use a easy out  others drill 8mm and take the heads off then use stud extractor  to removes the remains

Or you could be lucky and the bolts are simple allen heads
Theses never undo the bolts just bust the lock :-))



Excuse me for resurrecting this old thread…

The break off bolts are the big rivety looking things as seen at…
dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59660/rivet.jpg
Haynes says they should be torx but I can only see those things that appear to be rounded over rivets. 

The local 'tards decided to take a screwdriver to my ignition & forced it past the steering lock but not to the start position. Now the key says 'NO!'

I was planning on drilling the heads off but if they are bolted I'll try to create a groove & unscrew. They are normal right handed threads or are there other surprises in store for me?

Cheers 
D
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Jameshambleton
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by Jameshambleton on Tue 04 Oct 2016, 5:48 pm

@Droid wrote:

@davebike500 wrote:If it still got break off bolts fitted  It is a bit of a pain
You need to unplug switch and remove the top Yoke
With the yoke on the bench  there are a number of ways to remove the bolts 
I  drill a 3mm hole and use a easy out  others drill 8mm and take the heads off then use stud extractor  to removes the remains

Or you could be lucky and the bolts are simple allen heads
Theses never undo the bolts just bust the lock :-))


Excuse me for resurrecting this old thread…

The break off bolts are the big rivety looking things as seen at…
dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59660/rivet.jpg
Haynes says they should be torx but I can only see those things that appear to be rounded over rivets. 

The local 'tards decided to take a screwdriver to my ignition & forced it past the steering lock but not to the start position. Now the key says 'NO!'

I was planning on drilling the heads off but if they are bolted I'll try to create a groove & unscrew. They are normal right handed threads or are there other surprises in store for me?

Cheers 
D

Yup those are the ones in your photo, on my 97' and 98' they look the same, I believe they're sheerhead type bolts so after they pass a set nm they sheer off so they can't be easily undone.
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Droid
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by Droid on Tue 04 Oct 2016, 6:04 pm

Cheers, mines a CB500 98 Cup. 

I think I'll try to pick up an easy out, I don't fancy using a dremel cutting disk with what looks like hardened steel.

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