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Replacing Ignition Lock

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jimbobs63
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Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jimbobs63 on Mon 20 Jul 2015, 11:53 am

Hi,

Quick question, hopefully easy to answer but I don't have my Haynes Manual in front of me:

How easy is it to fit a replacement ignition/steering lock?

I'll soon be posting a "Parts Wanted" request so if anyone has got a spare one, let me know!

Jim
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davebike500
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by davebike500 on Mon 20 Jul 2015, 12:12 pm

If it still got break off bolts fitted  It is a bit of a pain
You need to unplug switch and remove the top Yoke
With the yoke on the bench  there are a number of ways to remove the bolts 
I  drill a 3mm hole and use a easy out  others drill 8mm and take the heads off then use stud extractor  to removes the remains

Or you could be lucky and the bolts are simple allen heads
Theses never undo the bolts just bust the lock :-))
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jimbobs63
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jimbobs63 on Mon 20 Jul 2015, 12:26 pm

Thanks for that Dave,

Hmm, doesn't sound that easy... which of course is how it should be, otherwise the thieves would be doing it...!!  Very Happy 

Jim
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by teamster1975 on Mon 20 Jul 2015, 5:14 pm

You could always try cutting a slot in the blind bolt head and using a large-ish flat head screwdriver to undo. I ended up cutting the bolt heads off ,removing the lock and unscrewing the shank.
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geoffnorfolk
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by geoffnorfolk on Mon 20 Jul 2015, 11:01 pm

I recently replaced the ignition/steering lock on my NTV650 which looks identical to the CB500. Got mine on Ebay for about £25..... this is the link to the place I got mine from and they do the CB500   http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Ignition-Switch-Lock-Honda-CB500-S-93-03-/200815008581?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2ec181db45    Works perfectly though the barrel was slightly taller so stuck up a bit taller where you put the key in.... if you see what I mean!  I found that I could use an angle grinder to slice through the sides of the old lock so that I also went through the securing bolts as well....... was very quick.
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by eternally_troubled on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 1:23 pm

Yes, an angle grinder (used carefully) would do it quick....

If you live in an area where people are going to try and hotwire (were they successful? did they get it started?) your bike then you could fit a DIY immobiliser: you fit a suitable extra switch under the seat that breaks the 'switched live' circuit, so you can't start the bike unless you take the seat off and set the switch to the correct position.

No-one will bother to lever off the seat (even thought it is possible) just to steal a CB500 for a joyride.

It won't stop them fucking up your bike but it will mean they won't be able to ride it off *just* by forcing the ignition lock.
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geoffnorfolk
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by geoffnorfolk on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 1:43 pm

Unfortunately my sons NTV was "hotwired" and it was alarmingly simple...... just twist 2 wires together under the switch and you're off...... unfortunately, my son hadn't put the steering lock on! Fortunately, they must have brushed these wires against the frame which then blew the main fuse and stopped them. When I replaced the lock/switch, I was impressed how sturdy the lock actually is... I'd imagine that it would be extremely difficult to beat it. Incidentally, I have a CB500r but the son has the NTV hence the NTV comments..... I'm not on here as an imposter!!!
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jimbobs63
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jimbobs63 on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 2:21 pm

Thanks for the replies,

I must assume that they managed to get it started, but don't know for sure.  Once I get the bike back I'll be able to check the trip reading to find out how far they rode- it was at 31 miles when I parked up after my last ride.

I like the idea of fitting a switch under the seat as a simple immobiliser - might well try that.

To be honest I normally use a disk lock, but not a chain lock, either or both of which would hopefully have deterred the thieves. However, I don't actually remember fitting the disk lock when I parked it up after the last ride, and when not fitted I keep the lock under the seat.  So when I get the bike back I'll also find out whether they drilled the disk lock to get it off, or whether I forgot to fit it!

Jim
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jerryfudd
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jerryfudd on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 3:54 pm

@davebike500 wrote:If it still got break off bolts fitted  It is a bit of a pain
You need to unplug switch and remove the top Yoke
With the yoke on the bench  there are a number of ways to remove the bolts 
I  drill a 3mm hole and use a easy out  others drill 8mm and take the heads off then use stud extractor  to removes the remains

Or you could be lucky and the bolts are simple allen heads
Theses never undo the bolts just bust the lock :-))



I used an extractor....... which snapped making my problem worse so I went with an alternative plan.

the studs go though quite a deep section of 'ignition unit' so I carefully cut straight through the side of the unit as near to the bottom as I could but on a path that would chop the bolt head off avoiding the yoke and thus through the bolts and lifted the unit out.

Then was just a case of PlusGas on the now visible shaft of the bolt and a pair of grips to wind it out.

EDIT: pretty much what geoffnorfolk said but used a hacksaw.
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jimbobs63
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jimbobs63 on Fri 24 Jul 2015, 10:39 pm

I got the bike back and fixed today (see other thread under Stolen Bikes), so now I'm turning my attention to the idea eternally-troubled came up with - 
i.e. fitting a kill switch under the seat on the live feed.

Does that mean simply putting a switch in the line of the positive wire straight from the battery?  Or is it more complex than that?

Jim

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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by sullivj on Fri 24 Jul 2015, 11:53 pm

An in line on off switch from the battery would work. Actually, that's not a bad idea..
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ashcroc
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by ashcroc on Fri 24 Jul 2015, 11:56 pm

That'd work though you'd want a very heavy duty switch due to the current draw on the battery wires. A switch on the low load side of he starter relay would be better.
Another option is a 2nd switch in series on the kill switch circuit so the bike still turns over but doesn't fire.
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wornsprokets
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by wornsprokets on Sat 25 Jul 2015, 12:00 am

Until u forget its there, practical sportsbike magazine this month have a pull out magazine called workshop wisdom its on electrics, shows how to do proper connections , testing electrics and where to buy proper stuff to fix wiring connectors and check elec system, maybe worth a look if ur putting in  a switch,
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by wornsprokets on Sat 25 Jul 2015, 12:18 am

My fireblade had a problamatic s3 datatool alarm i by passed it from help from web, it imobilised the power to kill switch, it was too much pain to disconnect it,  it showed how to get passed alarm with  putting two cooper links  into in  alarm its self.  That wire was near starter relay
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ashcroc
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by ashcroc on Sat 25 Jul 2015, 12:42 am

I've driven cars with immobilisers & activating it becomes 2nd nature very quickly.

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jerryfudd
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jerryfudd on Sat 25 Jul 2015, 7:56 am

would putting the kill on the earth serve the same purpose?
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ashcroc
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by ashcroc on Sat 25 Jul 2015, 8:36 am

Positive or negative makes no difference as it breaks the circuit in both cases.

I've just realised one very important reason why you don't want to put a switch on either of the battery cables. The fan still runs with the ignition off (one of the feeds through the ignition is a constant live for this purpose though you could bypass it I suppose) which won't work without power.

Far safer to install it to the low draw side of the starter relay or kill switch circuit instead.
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jerryfudd on Sat 25 Jul 2015, 8:41 am

thats what I thoughts so would be safer to cut the earth.

what is the low side? battery side?

also, the fan runs with the ignition off? ....I've never parked up so hot but certainly on the Street Trip and CBF6 it shut it all off when the key is out.
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by ashcroc on Sat 25 Jul 2015, 10:01 am

I haven't got a wiring diagram to hand but iirc the low current side is the connection to the starter button (86?) or earth, the connection to the battery (via the fuse) & the starter motor is the high current side.

Think I've had the fan still running with the ignition off once on a cb & not for long, it's alot more common to happen in cars.
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jimbobs63
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jimbobs63 on Sat 25 Jul 2015, 10:37 am

Thanks for the replies!

Yes, I was concerned that putting a switch on the battery side of the main fuse & starter relay would mean it has to cope with up to 30A.  I guess that a switch rated at 12V/30A must be available (Maplins?).  But as suggested, putting it before the main fuse/starter relay rather than in the live feed to the ignition switch (say) would mean that the fan would not continue to run after the switch is killed.

I had a look at Haynes, and the main fuse is under the right hand panel near the battery and the starter relay is to the rear of it.  I guess it should be relatively easy to cut into the live feed after the starter relay and with a long enough wire then fit the in-line switch within the compartment under the seat, obviously positioned so that any tools etc don't knock it and switch it to off whilst riding along!!

Jim


Last edited by jimbobs63 on Sat 01 Aug 2015, 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jimbobs63
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jimbobs63 on Sat 25 Jul 2015, 1:26 pm

OK,

I've looked in more detail at the wiring diagram in the Haynes manual, and physically looked under the right hand side panel, so can someone confirm the following to be perhaps the best solution:

The positive feed from the battery through the 30A main fuse goes to the ignition (key) switch where it is split into two feeds, both of which go back to the fuse box.

The first feed goes through a 10A fuse and feeds the fan switch and fan.  I assume that this feed is permanently live, even if the key switch is in the off or steering lock position.  The second feed back to the fuse box, which is only live when the key is switched to on, is then split between three 10/15A fused lines to cover headlight, rest of lights/horn/etc, and the starter switch/kill switch which feeds on to the ignition circuit itself.

So if I cut into this second feed coming back to the fuse box, then I can put in a simple switch with can be fixed inside the underseat compartment.  That means that the fan will continue to run even after this the key ignition switch and this new switch have both been switched off.  Also the length of wiring needed to and from the new switch will be quite short and easily routed, which is a bonus.

Given that this second feed into the fuse box is still being split between three lines totally over 30A, I guess I will still need a high rating switch to cope with the current draw through this circuit.

Does that make sense?

Jim
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ashcroc
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by ashcroc on Sat 25 Jul 2015, 2:05 pm

That'll work.
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jimbobs63
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jimbobs63 on Sat 25 Jul 2015, 2:46 pm

Thanks ashcroc,

I've ordered a toggle switch, some wire and spade connectors all rated at 12V/30A so should be able to give it a go in a few days.

I'll give an update on progress next weekend....!

Jim
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Llewelyn1965
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by Llewelyn1965 on Sat 25 Jul 2015, 11:25 pm

I'd like to do something like this too. Can you post a diagram of the wiring and some pics to please?

Thanks
Llew
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jimbobs63
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Re: Replacing Ignition Lock

Post by jimbobs63 on Sun 26 Jul 2015, 10:12 am

OK, thinking about my proposed method above, my only concern is that if my secret switch or wiring fails as I'm riding along, then I'll lose all power including to the engine, lights, etc....  Perhaps not very safe...!

The alternative is to fit the secret switch between the starter button and the starter relay, so that it only disables starting the bike, and nothing else.  So, the bike is more difficult to start, but could be bump-started by a thief.

Any opinions?

Jim

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