Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle.

Rust in tank. What to do?

Share
avatar
ceejay
the 800
the 800

Posts : 269
Location : Bournemouth

Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by ceejay on Mon 08 Jun 2015, 11:36 am

If I look into my tank I can see rust down in the crease on the left. Most of what I can see in the tank looks clean but there is definitely some in there and I can't see it the whole thing... so I'm just looking for opinions on what to do in this situation (if anything?). I could drain the tank to get out any water that might somehow be in there and leave it at that. I could try one of these techniques with sharp stones/sand and distilled water etc to try remove the rust but would I be at risk of damaging any of the good parts of a liner that might already exist in the tank (bearing in mind most of the tank seems to look good)?

Any tips/experiences welcome!
avatar
eternally_troubled
Admin
Admin

Awesome!
Posts : 3694
Location : 'ere be fens. (near Cambridge)

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by eternally_troubled on Mon 08 Jun 2015, 2:37 pm

I think it depends on how proactive you are Smile It doesn't sound like a lot of rust, so you could just 'keep going' and it (probably) won't be a problem for a good while yet. When it does start leaking then you'll have to get it fixed and then probably use some kind of tank-liner stuff.

You could line the tank now - it will be easier because there is less rust to bugger things up.

If you do then make sure you use tank-liner/sealer that is ethanol proof. There is a good one, but I can't remember what it is called/where you can get it from (doh!).
avatar
jerryfudd
Moderator
Moderator

Awesome!
Posts : 1744
Location : Surrey

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by jerryfudd on Mon 08 Jun 2015, 3:42 pm

First thing i'd suggest is checking that you have a the filter that goes up inside the tank and possibly even replace (only about £11 if memory serves) as I know its been missing on some CB's...... then might we worth a clear in line one to see whats going to the carbs.

Other than that my father in law got a solution that you sloosh in the tank when empty to form a protective layer over the rust to nutralise and solidify it.
avatar
ceejay
the 800
the 800

Posts : 269
Location : Bournemouth

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by ceejay on Mon 08 Jun 2015, 4:11 pm

Thanks for the advice.

Badseeds recommends one here, maybe this one? (Slosh)

Cleaning the carbs is another job I want to do soon so maybe inspecting them will dictate whether it is worth going ahead with this now? I guess at this point I'm more concerned about any crap passing through the filter rather than a hole in the tank which like you say would probably be a bit further down the line.

I'm wondering since it is not a massive amount of rust is it worth trying to clean the tank and not seal it or would this be a waste of time as the rust would come back? Leaving me with the options of doing nothing for now and doing the lot and sealing it...
avatar
ceejay
the 800
the 800

Posts : 269
Location : Bournemouth

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by ceejay on Mon 08 Jun 2015, 4:18 pm

jerryfudd - I wrote that previous message before seeing yours. I did wonder about the filter, I can just about see something in there through the top of the tank, I will take the petcock off to check it out properly. I guess as it's 16 years old a new one for 11 quid probably not a bad idea?

That solution sounds encouraging, if you remember what it is let me know. There are a few interesting youtube vids on this subject, not sure if I can trust them or whether it's worth doing if you are not going to seal it after to prevent the rust coming back.
avatar
ashcroc
the 900
the 900

Awesome!
Posts : 1505
Location : London

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by ashcroc on Mon 08 Jun 2015, 5:12 pm

An aftermarket inline filter would be the best way to stop any crap getting through to the carbs & they can be quite cheap. If you get a clear one it'll be easy to check if it's catching anything too.
avatar
ceejay
the 800
the 800

Posts : 269
Location : Bournemouth

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by ceejay on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 10:45 am

An aftermarket inline filter would be the best way to stop any crap getting through to the carbs & they can be quite cheap. 

Thanks, I'll look into these. The more I think about this though the more I think I should do the whole lot - clean tank, seal tank, inspect/replace filter, clean carbs etc. It's mostly labour rather than parts so I can't claim it's too expensive if I'm going to do the work myself so no excuses left for me : ) I probably wont be able to do it for a while now because of work but will report back here when I do.
avatar
ashcroc
the 900
the 900

Awesome!
Posts : 1505
Location : London

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by ashcroc on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 11:27 am

That's one of the reasons I suggested an ]inline filter. They're quick to fit & will stop anything getting to the carbs while you wait for time to work on the tank.

I keep meaning to fit one myself but can't remember what size fuel hose we have.
avatar
jerryfudd
Moderator
Moderator

Awesome!
Posts : 1744
Location : Surrey

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by jerryfudd on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 11:33 am

believe it's 8mm id.....
avatar
jerryfudd
Moderator
Moderator

Awesome!
Posts : 1744
Location : Surrey

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by jerryfudd on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 11:36 am

btw don't bother with the chrome/glass ones with the replaceable filter as it seems a good idea but quality is sh*te. The seal to the glass was terrible and one end wouldn't sit flush so I was concerned it would leak fuel and binned it.

The moulded plastic ones seem a better idea but I guess you'd have to change every now and then as wouldn't the petrol eat the plastic away?
avatar
ashcroc
the 900
the 900

Awesome!
Posts : 1505
Location : London

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by ashcroc on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 11:55 am

I'd hope they'd be made from a petrol resistant plastic considering the use. The biggest difference between the 2 is the plastic ones are usually single use sealed units whereas the alu or glass/chrome ones can be disassembled for cleaning.
avatar
jerryfudd
Moderator
Moderator

Awesome!
Posts : 1744
Location : Surrey

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by jerryfudd on Tue 09 Jun 2015, 11:58 am

didn't know there was such as petrol resistant plastic. on the other I think the disassemble feature coupled with cheap manufacturing is their downfall
avatar
alvamiga
Godzilla
Godzilla

Posts : 231
Location : Reading

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by alvamiga on Thu 11 Jun 2015, 8:52 am

@jerryfudd wrote:didn't know there was such as petrol resistant plastic...

What did you think those plastic petrol carriers were made of? Wink
avatar
jerryfudd
Moderator
Moderator

Awesome!
Posts : 1744
Location : Surrey

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by jerryfudd on Thu 11 Jun 2015, 8:56 am

very true but then I don't like leaving them around with fuel in either
avatar
alvamiga
Godzilla
Godzilla

Posts : 231
Location : Reading

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by alvamiga on Thu 11 Jun 2015, 9:32 am

Back in his younger days, a friend was working on his bike and had a minor leak. He unthinkingly chucked an ice-cream container under it to catch the run off. That apparently didn't end too well! Very Happy

Personally, I don't like leaving any kinds of flammable or explosives about, which is a real pain these days with all the aerosol products about.
avatar
jerryfudd
Moderator
Moderator

Awesome!
Posts : 1744
Location : Surrey

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by jerryfudd on Thu 11 Jun 2015, 9:52 am

indeed, even when the tetracan's are empty I'll leave them out for a few days with a loose rag over the open cap just to let all the residue and vapour escape.
avatar
ashcroc
the 900
the 900

Awesome!
Posts : 1505
Location : London

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by ashcroc on Thu 11 Jun 2015, 6:39 pm

A full tetracan's actually safer to store than an empty one as there's no space for flammable vapours.
avatar
eternally_troubled
Admin
Admin

Awesome!
Posts : 3694
Location : 'ere be fens. (near Cambridge)

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by eternally_troubled on Sun 14 Jun 2015, 5:06 pm

@ashcroc wrote:A full tetracan's actually safer to store than an empty one as there's no space for flammable vapours.

Yep, as long it doesn't leak *any* kind of container that has had petrol in (petrol tanks, fuel cans etc) is safer when full, however this is kind of a moot point if you concerned about it leaking.

A lot of car petrol tanks are made of plastic and don't have any problems.

TBH if you want to store petrol for a while then a metal jerry can with a firmly closing lid isn't a bad idea.
avatar
ceejay
the 800
the 800

Posts : 269
Location : Bournemouth

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by ceejay on Sun 03 Apr 2016, 4:16 pm

Just and update on this: I finally got round to doing this work - cleaned out carbs, fuel tap, lined tank with 'Slosh' and replaced the fuel filter. I've only had one ride out since but I'm very happy that the throttle feels noticeably smoother - possibly a result of carb cleaning as there was a fair amount of deposits in them (but I did also replace chain/sprockets recently). 

Lining the tank was a bit of a pain because the exits (holes) are never at the lowest point whichever angle you have the tank (for example the tube that the fuel tap attaches to is raised off the bottom inside the tank). This all means there is always some liquid in there that is hard to remove when emptying/cleaning and therefore hard to dry before you line it. The 'Slosh' stuff gets itself everywhere inside the tank remarkably well so all the metal is covered inside. I blocked the fuel tap exit with the old fuel filter because if any of this stuff lined that part I'd probably never get a new filter in. However this back fired when the old filter inevitable became completely glued in then snapped off when trying to remove it. Pried the remains out eventually. Now its a question of how long the liner lasts and any adverse side effects.... will report back if anything happens but hopefully will do the job and prevent rust from forming.

I've never had a carb bike before so working on these was a first but thankfully easier than I was expecting. For example I thought they were going to be a nightmare to get out the bike but actually came off pretty easily. Some bolts and screws were seized on the carbs so they took some time to deal with. I used Haynes but once the carbs were out I found parts 6,7 and 8 of this guy's videos helpful (probably more so than Haynes TBH). One of the reasons they were so helpful is because the carbs on the Honda V6 he's working on are very similar, if not the same, as ours (minus the chrome caps!). Thankfully the internals of my carbs were no where near the state his were in. Surprisingly despite crap built up in the float bowls my original fuel filter was intact. (Also worth noting he lines the tank on the same bike and his vids for that are quite useful too).

Overall a bit of a job but glad I did it, I had a problem with my bike being a bit snatchy on the throttle and that appears to have been solved somewhere along the line and is nice to know that hopefully I won't have to worry about rust in the tank getting worse or lumps of the original sub air filter effecting air flow etc in the carbs.
avatar
ceejay
the 800
the 800

Posts : 269
Location : Bournemouth

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by ceejay on Tue 01 Nov 2016, 3:55 pm

Update - no negative side effects so far and no worrying about rust in tank. Not even a year old I suppose but have done around 5000 miles since then so I am happy.

Reading back through my last post I did not mention that lining your tank with this gunk could block the breather hole in the top of the tank. This happened to me and you could tell because after I rode the bike I could hear the air rushing into the tank when I opened the fuel cap. Not good because I suppose that could give you some fuelling issues or even damage the tank. It's difficult to explain but from what I could tell there is a ring shaped tube near the top of the tank that has a single hole in the underside that needs to be clear to avoid a vacuum being created as fuel is used. I managed to pierce it by bending a metal hook into the right shape and the problem was solved. This pic is from a CBR but from what I gather our CB500's have a similar tubular ring (silver bit) up near the fuel cap.

avatar
eternally_troubled
Admin
Admin

Awesome!
Posts : 3694
Location : 'ere be fens. (near Cambridge)

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by eternally_troubled on Tue 01 Nov 2016, 4:08 pm

Cool. Thanks for the update - I suspect that this problem will be effecting more of our bikes in the future, so I suspect your experiences will be of use to someone soon.
avatar
Jameshambleton
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 1908
Location : Bedale, North Yorkshire

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by Jameshambleton on Tue 01 Nov 2016, 6:58 pm

@eternally_troubled wrote:Cool.  Thanks for the update - I suspect that this problem will be effecting more of our bikes in the future, so I suspect your experiences will be of use to someone soon.
will be doing this on my bandit very soon I think
avatar
Alvi
Running out of unique names
Running out of unique names

Posts : 188
Location : Isle of Man

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by Alvi on Tue 01 Nov 2016, 9:20 pm

Sounds like the Slosh was pretty effective. I did my leaking CB500 & Superdream tanks with Por15 a while back, without much success - they both leaked afterwards. I managed to fix the Superdream tank, but ended up replacing the CB500 tank. I cut the bottom off the old one & found bare patches it hadn't stuck to. I'd been carefull to clean & dry the inside before I applied the stuff, so I wasn't impressed.
avatar
ratatooie
Running out of unique names
Running out of unique names

Posts : 180
Location : Isle of Man

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by ratatooie on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 9:32 am

I've also been wrestling with this issue on my project tank (from a 1980s Yam FZ600). I have put some of the experiences in my post in the Diaries, Blogs and Articles section, but a bit has happened since then. I will update the other post in time.

I have tried the vinegar method (seal tank and fill with white wine vinegar). This takes about a week. You have to neutralise it effectively with something like baking soda and water once you have poured out all the vinegar and detritus. However, even if you do neutralise the inside of the tank really really likes to flash rust - as in within 10 minutes a light covering of flash rust will be present. I tried again with vinegar, then neutralised it with the water and baking soda mix. However, I then added some chemical grade alcohol, which absorbs the water and allows very quick evaporation. I then sealed the tank with Petseal, which to be honest was not particularly successful. The tank has been sitting in the garage for a few months while I was sorting other parts of the project and polishing the outside of the tank and in that time, rust patches have appeared UNDER the petseal Sad This is most likely my own mess up somewhere along the line, but I followed the instructions to the letter. 

My plan for this evening is to strip the Petseal out of the tank using Nitromors, which apparently removes it. I next plan to do the electrolysis method, followed by the adding the Slosh liner mentioned above so will report back when that is complete. The decision to go with the Slosh over Petseal this time is that apparently Petseal is quite susceptible to increased levels of ethanol in our fuel so it might have been a non starter in any event. 

One of the better write ups I have been using in terms of methods of derusting is the website below:

http://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Removing_rust_from_a_gas_tank

Sponsored content

Re: Rust in tank. What to do?

Post by Sponsored content


    Current date/time is Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:35 am