Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle.

Tapered Steerer Bearings

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jerryfudd
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Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by jerryfudd on Wed 28 Jan 2015, 7:36 am

Hi,

Anyone using these? bought a set of allballs from wemoto and my steerings lock pin doesn't locate the frame recess.

being a replacement ignition lock (also from wemoto) and not having the original to compare to I initally blamed that but they have set me another one from another company and there is no change and now I'm starting to think it's actually the top yoke is sitting to low - not that the lock/locking pin is sitting too high.

Anyone else had any experience of this? going to call them again today but I'm thinking the only solution maybe to grind a mm or 2 off the bottom of the locking pin so it finds the hole in the frame rather than hitting the bottom edge of it when trying to engage.

Dan
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eternally_troubled
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by eternally_troubled on Wed 28 Jan 2015, 12:31 pm

I've not replaced the steering head bearings on my CB500 (yet!) but on other bikes I haven't had any problems.

I think it might depend upon how similar the bearings are in size to the originals; some may claim to be the right size but might not quite match up, equally the originals may be a different size from what they claim, so without measuring/hard staring it is hard to say.

Just a thought - is it possible to extend the hole in the frame a bit rather than taking some metal off the locking pin? (you wouldn't want to make the locking pin any weaker...)
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by jerryfudd on Wed 28 Jan 2015, 12:40 pm

thanks...... I see your point but I'd rather potentially weaken the steering lock pin (not that 1-2mm should do much on what looks to be a hardened pin) on a £40 unit than risk making a pigs ear of the frame which has just been re-powder coated lol Smile

I've put the problem back to wemoto to see what they think (again).

Dan
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by eternally_troubled on Wed 28 Jan 2015, 12:57 pm

@jerryfudd wrote:thanks...... I see your point but I'd rather potentially weaken the steering lock pin (not that 1-2mm should do much on what looks to be a hardened pin) on a £40 unit than risk making a pigs ear of the frame which has just been re-powder coated lol :)


You won't make a pigs ear of it; you just need a small enough file and to take it nice and easy :)  Having said that, I do see your point...

EDIT, additional:

You have probably been round this already, but:

how sure you are that the two bearing shells have seated correctly in the head-tube? Any offset here might cause problems.

Personally I've found that the sound they make as you are hammering them in changes when they are properly seated in the tube.

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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by teamster1975 on Wed 28 Jan 2015, 4:27 pm

I fitted needle bearings to mine when I replaced them a few years back, no problems and still smooth Smile
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by jerryfudd on Wed 28 Jan 2015, 4:28 pm

can you remember what brand you used?
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by teamster1975 on Wed 28 Jan 2015, 4:32 pm

Now you're asking, no idea I'm afraid, they were generic from a mates Kawasaki shop.
Actually I'm popping there tomorrow to sort their computer out, I'll ask him Smile
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by ANDYC on Wed 28 Jan 2015, 9:09 pm

I have used them many times over the years and they work fine as long as they are seated properly as previously mentioned.
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by davebike500 on Thu 29 Jan 2015, 12:43 pm

Brand makes no difference as there just standard bearings !

Look to see but I guess your missing the tab washer you don't need it but you need the thickness otherwise the top yoke is too low and the steering lock will not work
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by jerryfudd on Thu 29 Jan 2015, 12:44 pm

@davebike500 wrote:Brand makes no difference as there just standard bearings !

Look to see but I guess your missing the tab washer you don't need it but you need the thickness otherwise the top yoke is too low and the steering lock will not work

Its in there..... brand new in fact
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by jerryfudd on Thu 29 Jan 2015, 12:59 pm

I paid a shop to seat and fit them, they've been around for years. all I gave them was the bearing pack, the tab washer and the two parts that go above and below - anything else they would have been missing? they certainly didn't question anything and I can't explain how much I don't really want to take the yoke off to start checking :-/
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by jerryfudd on Thu 29 Jan 2015, 1:13 pm

Looking at the diagram I don't recall giving them a dust seal that the shrouded cover goes onto - would this be specific to the tapered bearings and in the kit I bought or the Honda one?
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by jerryfudd on Thu 29 Jan 2015, 1:54 pm

Well on the presumption I need the Honda dust seal I've ordered it - can anyone confirm before I begrudgingly remove the top yoke?
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by eternally_troubled on Thu 29 Jan 2015, 2:37 pm

I don't think those dust seals are usually supplied...

If you look here:

http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB500V-1997/

you can see that they are supplied separately to the bearing kit.

They don't look very thick though...
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by jerryfudd on Thu 29 Jan 2015, 2:46 pm

Are you talking about this one.....?



If so its in the kit

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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by eternally_troubled on Thu 29 Jan 2015, 2:55 pm

Yes, that is exactly what I am talking about.

As you can see the thing in the allballs picture is very similar to the thing in the david silver picture.

So they might be in there already?
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by jerryfudd on Thu 29 Jan 2015, 2:58 pm

Thats what I'm thinking I'm pleased ......and yet not so pleased Laughing

Going to keep it on order just in case and compare the one that arrives aswell as taking a real close look at the stack to see if that sheds any light.
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by eternally_troubled on Thu 29 Jan 2015, 3:09 pm

Unless things were a bit close I don't think that the thickness of that seal should make much difference, but it would be interesting to know if it was there, either way.

I have previously used the freezer to cool my head-race bearings prior to installation: they are much easier to install (less hassle) and it is easier to ensure they are correctly seated as you not having to fight them into the holes.

I fear to get to the bottom of this you are going to have to take it apart; even then it may not be obvious unless you give the races a few sharp thwacks via a suitably sized driving instrument.
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by jerryfudd on Thu 29 Jan 2015, 3:31 pm

arse, thanks I know your right..... I can't imagine that they aren't seated correctly its hard to imagine a reputable dealer could f*ck it up that much.
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by jerryfudd on Thu 29 Jan 2015, 10:18 pm

ok, just been having a play and all I need is the top yoke to be 2mm higher for the steering lock to work.

picture aids to follow Smile (btw i have the top caps poking through 10mm)

works...


doesn't work.....


by sliding the yoke up I can see the shrouded locking nut, the locking washer and then the locking ring on top of that - should that locking ring then sit against the underside of the yoke? 

I'm pretty sure I can't just have a 2mm air gap with the yoke held in place by the stanchion bolts right? could I add a 2mm spacer?
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by eternally_troubled on Fri 30 Jan 2015, 12:56 pm

Moving the yolk up and down the stanchions should also move the rest of the bike up and down (via the head bearing), so I don't quite understand why moving the forks/yolk relative to each other should effect how the steering lock works, unless there is some play in the bearing setup.

Seems odd to me. Not wanting to propose more obvious things but before you take it *all* apart would it be worth checking the tension on the bearings? Could they have got that wrong (which was causing the problem all along)?
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by jerryfudd on Fri 30 Jan 2015, 1:16 pm

not sure what you mean but moving the top yoke (with the stanchion bolts undone and the lower yoke still fully secure) makes a difference because the steering lock locators are on the frame and the steering lock pin is in the yoke you can see them in this pic and where its been hitting it by the scuff marks at the bottom of them.



by raising the yoke and therefore the ignition barrel 2mm the locking pin in it no longer hits the bottom.

when everyone else looks under that black shroud what can they see? I can see straight up.... should there be a dust seal sealing it off? even so I thought we established that the seal wouldn't make 2mm of difference?

the only way it could be incorrect tension on the bearing is if they are too tight
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by eternally_troubled on Fri 30 Jan 2015, 1:28 pm

Sorry - I got the wrong end of the stick (fork leg?). I thought that you were sliding the forks through the yolks (i.e. both of them) and that was changing how the lock worked - I see now that you are only moving the top yolk, which explains it.

I was thinking that if the bearings were too loose then there might have been play which was effecting how things lined up. I guess that you've already jacked things up and given the fork legs a good wiggling to check for play in the bearing?

If there *isn't* play in the bearing *and* you have the dust seals in then, yes, I can see how an extra spacer would be a good idea...
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by jerryfudd on Fri 30 Jan 2015, 1:33 pm

Well I'm not sure its a 'good idea' its still bugging me why but its certainly workable and safe which will have to do..... ordered a 2.5mm thick ID: 24mm OD: 44mm stainless washer this morning which should hopefully do the trick.
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Re: Tapered Steerer Bearings

Post by jerryfudd on Sat 31 Jan 2015, 9:17 pm

Problem sorted but not without a hiccup along the way..... the spacer above arrived and 2.5mm actually turned out to by 4mm which I wasn't happy about but fitted any way and made the locking pin now hit the top of the recess - proving the fact that I did really need 2mm.

So, with the help of sullivj's master engineer friend who kindly modified one of his homemade washers we were in business.

sorted!


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