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working on cct

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geewhizz
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working on cct

Post by geewhizz on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 11:30 pm

when working on the cct did you remove any other parts to gain better access of just tackle it in situ? I had a look today, couldn't find a small enough spanner and gave up.
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stormbringer
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Re: working on cct

Post by stormbringer on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 7:31 am

geewhizz wrote:when working on the cct did you remove any other parts to gain better access of just tackle it in situ? I had a look today, couldn't find a small enough spanner and gave up.


What do you mean? - the CCT sits in plain view and is directly - albeit a bit cramped - accessible:


Took mine out for inspection + oil-trick some time back. Here's what i learnt:

Clean the area. Rags, compressed air, stiff brushes - do it right.
Haynes describes a 'key' made out of flat iron or aluminium. I made a couple of those. Removed bolt on top - I think it was a 9 - with standard spanner. Inserted key and 'wound up' the CCT, then pushed key in to lock CCT in that state. Finally, used spanner/socket+ratchet (size 10 or 11) to remove two retaining bolts. While doing so, take care to not prod the key - it'll easily unlock and cause the plunger to re-extend. With both retaining bolts out of the way, it's a matter of wiggling the CCT out from its seating and take it to your working table.
Remove key and watch the CCT go 'whirrrr', extending its plunger.
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geewhizz
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Re: working on cct

Post by geewhizz on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 11:35 pm

Yeah I know, I was just feeling pretty lazy after doing the front wheel bearings. The sun was out but I had one beer too many the night before. Thanks for the tips though, its certainly a job that needs doing soon.
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geewhizz
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Re: working on cct

Post by geewhizz on Sun 13 Jul 2014, 1:10 pm

so popped the cct out this afternoon, using the homemade key as haynes describes. I've been winding it up and down and its very smooth, not notchy at all. the tip/contact point looks a little polished/worn but other than that i cant see any sign of anything wrong. I'm going to leave it in a pot of oil for a few hours and stick it back in. Is there anything else i could do with it today while its out?
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eternally_troubled
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Re: working on cct

Post by eternally_troubled on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 12:50 pm

No, not really. I don't think there is much else you could do.

I wander if the best thing to dunk it in would be something more like the hot grease you dunked
old chains in - the hot grease gets in through the cracks and then solidifies on the inside providing longer lasting lubrication (just as it does on a non o-ring chain).

Someone was going to take one apart and see how/why it failed and/or works, I don't know how far they got.
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geewhizz
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Re: working on cct

Post by geewhizz on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 11:47 pm

So after doing the above, almost immediately the noise is back, will try and post a video in the hope that someone can identify the issue to be the cct. Otherwise could it also be the valve clearances?
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geewhizz
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Re: working on cct

Post by geewhizz on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 8:31 pm

hopefully this link works, i just fired up the bike from cold. thoughts?

<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid1009.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf214%2Fgrahammichie%2FIMG_2193_zpse96ede1f.mp4&title=">

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HomeBrew
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Re: working on cct

Post by HomeBrew on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 10:39 pm

Perhaps that is the clutch rattle? I'm not sure but I think I heard that cam chain noises go away as the bike warms up, (this was nissan micra's) what happens when it gets warm?
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geewhizz
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Re: working on cct

Post by geewhizz on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 11:14 pm

Thanks for the reply, I think it's still there when hot but maybe less pronounced.
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geewhizz
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Re: working on cct

Post by geewhizz on Wed 16 Jul 2014, 12:46 pm

Well after a half hour ride and temp gauge up to half way the noise had largely or completely stopped.
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eternally_troubled
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Re: working on cct

Post by eternally_troubled on Wed 16 Jul 2014, 12:52 pm

Yes, I think that irregular click/clack noise is the cam chain.  I can't be sure, but that's what I think.

The 'normal' clutch noise goes away when you pull the clutch lever, if you want to check.

I suspect you might have to shell out for a new CCT, eventually...
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HomeBrew
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Re: working on cct

Post by HomeBrew on Wed 16 Jul 2014, 12:58 pm

Could it also be that the cam chain is worn out? Maybe the CCT is fully extended and the chain still has too much slack.

The Honda manual suggests tracing the noise with a sounding rod or stethoscope.
It gives these options for excessive noise in the cylinder head:

-Incorrect valve clearance
-Sticking valve or broken valve spring
-Worn or damaged camshaft
-Worn or damaged cam sprocket chain
-Loose or worn cam chain
-Worn or damaged cam chain tensioner
-Loose spark plug
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geewhizz
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Re: working on cct

Post by geewhizz on Wed 16 Jul 2014, 10:40 pm

Ah that's a bummer. I don't have a sounding rod but could probably borrow a stethoscope off a doctor friend if it's the same design. Thanks for the input . Keen to get it sorted as soon as I can. Suggested method of diagonsis? Buy new CCT and see what happens seems like an easy if costly route. Electrics and engine internals are two things I don't like having to mess about with as I use the bike daily and don't have access to a shelter/garage.
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geewhizz
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Re: working on cct

Post by geewhizz on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 3:21 pm

I took the bike round to local bike shop who agreed that it was probably the CCT. He's a particularly helpful guy and offered to weld a bit on the end of CCT to fix the problem. What are your thoughts to this approach? The concept makes me a little nervous but he's been around bikes a lot longer than I have and he'd probably do it for a few cold ones.
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geewhizz
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Re: working on cct

Post by geewhizz on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 5:27 pm

If I understand correctly this approach is assuming the cct is fully extended. At which point the chain itself may need replacing instead of extending the length of the plunger?
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HomeBrew
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Re: working on cct

Post by HomeBrew on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:21 pm

If the cam chain tensioner is fully extended, and the cam chain is still loose and rattling that would indicate a worn chain rather than a worn tensioner I think. But maybe the end of the CCT does wear and they should be replaced as a set? You could remove the tensioner, and count how many windings it has fully extended and how many when fitted. But first I would use the stethoscope and make sure it wasn't anything else, though I think Eternally Troubled is right it does sound like the cam chain.
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eternally_troubled
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Re: working on cct

Post by eternally_troubled on Fri 18 Jul 2014, 1:41 pm

I *bet* the tensioner isn't at its full extent: that would imply your chain was positively elastic!

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