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Project hooligan!

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HomeBrew
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by HomeBrew on Fri 01 Nov 2013, 8:30 pm

G3o what's happening with this? Such a brilliant thread are there any updates? I'm sure I'm not the only one keen to hear how its turning out! Cheers Smile
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badseeds
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by badseeds on Sat 02 Nov 2013, 7:11 pm

HomeBrew wrote:......I'm sure I'm not the only one keen to hear how its turning out! Cheers Smile
You're not!
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G3o
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by G3o on Sat 16 Nov 2013, 4:05 pm

Apologies for the lack of updates I've been insanely busy with work recently. 

There hasn't been a lot of progress made on the bike unfortunately. The cylinder head is finished but not yet installed.

The accident did a bit more damage then i initially thought, the impact has shagged the steering head bearing. There are two notches that the steering falls into when at lower speeds. Doesn't make the bike unridable but I certainly don't want to be doing high milage or high speed on it! 

First chance i get i will be changing those bearings. If i can find the time over the winter i am hoping to do a full strip down and get the thing sorted out. Its outside life is starting to show! 

Will get some photos up of the finished cylinder head soon :] hopefully work will be slowing down soon and i can get back on with this!
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G3o
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by G3o on Sat 16 Nov 2013, 4:45 pm

oh and i designed a riser plate for someone on here, don't know if anyone else would be interested, here is the 3d model of it, send me a PM with how far up and back you want to move your pegs and i will adjust the drawing for you and send you it :]

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G3o
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by G3o on Wed 20 Nov 2013, 2:46 am

Update time!

Got out by DSLR and finally got some decent pictures of the finished cylinder head. 

Photo Overload!:





































I did warn you! xD

I tried to show as much as i could with the limited battery i had left. 

I am absolutely convinced that this head has had previous work done to it, there are clearly machining marks on the gasket face. Will be taking very close notice of the squish clearance when i install it. The last thing i want is the piston clouting the head! 

On the exhaust port side we've done very little work, most just clean up work. Smoothed out the flow faces and narrowed down the center join slightly to make the two ports flow into each other slightly more smoothly. Won't really make any noticeable difference but it should improve scavenging slightly.

On the inlet ports we have raised the peak of the curve by about 2-2.5mm and flattened out the bottom of the port. The outside of each port is about .1-.2mm higher than the inside of the port, as a/f mix flows through this it will naturally get drawn around the outside of the cylinder and then crash into the a/f mix coming from the opposite direction and cause itself to disperse more evenly throughout the cylinder. ... ... well thats the theory anyway! 

The entire thing has been cleaned up as much as can reasonably be expected without buying very precise tools and spending an inordinate amount of time working on it! This should be a fantastic improvement on the standard already. As i've said before power gains are not the objective at this point, the goal is a smooth and predictable power delivery with clean and consistent fueling. The power comes later on! 

I've managed to get a good deal on local storage so the bike will have a nice warm(ish) place to live shortly! This means i will have somewhere i can really get down and dirty with this. My work is slowing down rapidly now so i should have more time to get stuff done on the bike! 

Just a rundown of things to come!

First job is stripping the bike down. This will be a complete strip of the bike so i can really sort out what needs work and it gives me a chance to properly paint the frame and engine, repack/replace all the bearings and replace all the horrible corroded spacers and engine mounts. 

When that is all back together the cylinder head will be getting fitted and tested.

I'm currently working the initial design for a replacement seat unit and sub-frame, I will be raising the seating position so i sit slightly higher on the bike and the rear sets will also be going up to accommodate. I am still working on the adjustable rear sets, my PC died and i lost all of the work so have had to start over, i've rethought the design quite drastically, will see how it turns out! I'm not fussed about comfort on this, its a bike for hooliganism, not commuting! So the squishy, clingy, loose and saggy seat has got to go! It will be replaced with a solid seat unit and some seating foam! I will also be losing the under seat storage which should make engine access and electrical shiz-niz much easier to manage. 

I will be almost completely redoing the wiring loom. Going to pretty much scrap the standard one and start over if i have the time and inclination! The standard one is messy, nasty and badly routed imho! BAD HONDA! :-P

I still don't get the confidence from the front end to really push my limits on the bike so i will be trying out different suspension set ups to see if i can't get things working a bit better. If i can get it nicely sorted then i will be dropping the forks through the yokes a few mm or jacking up the rear to sharpen up the handling. Depends what proves more confidence inspiring, they both have exactly the same effect but feel a bit different when riding. By jacking up the rear/dropping the front you put more pressure on the front tyre, which isn't a problem due to super sticky rosso II's, and makes the bike tip into corners and change direction faster. Being a lover of back roads that is all i need! It does require a lot of faith in the front end though, which i don't currently have! 

When all that is sorted i can start looking at the power side of things! I have mentioned the idea of putting a turbo on the bike. That is still a serious possibility, however I need a good base to start on before i start pushing the power up. There is nothing more scary than riding a bike you're not 100% happy with quickly, when you then add more power to the situation it just becomes down right terrifying! 

If i pushed it, adding a turbo could (without much trouble) get the power up to early '00 liter sport bike levels. I don't plan on going anywhere near that far when riding the bike (unless my plans for santa pod come through), but it might be fun for a run or two on the dyno! Assuming a start point of about 55 BHP (just to make things easy!) it will only need 1-2psi of boost and the power would be up toward the 80-100 bhp mark, depending on how the engine takes to the turbo, and what turbo i use. Take it to 3-4 psi and you'll be looking at 120+ bhp if the engine doesn't just rip itself apart. I am talking flywheel bhp NOT rear wheel, just to clarify. Still a lot of ground work to do on this before i even start but... it is certainly going to be interesting, and if all goes well, a whole lot of fun!!! 

Tara for now,
Geo
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HomeBrew
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by HomeBrew on Sun 24 Nov 2013, 11:16 am

Really interesting, where did you learn about how to do all this?
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G3o
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by G3o on Sun 24 Nov 2013, 12:04 pm

HomeBrew wrote:Really interesting, where did you learn about how to do all this?
I'm glad people enjoy reading it :] It does keep motivation up when i get frustrated and consider giving up on the whole thing! 

Short answer is, the internet and a friend who used to build engines! I started out working on an aprilia rs 125 2t. It started out with about 26 bhp and i pushed that up to about 31 bhp. Due to the workings of a 2t to get anywhere at all, without just sending it to a shop to get done, you have to have a decent understanding on airflow/gas flow mechanics, gas exchange within the engine and back pressure. Once you understand the basics you can then transfer it over to anything you like without much difficulty. Everything else in an engine is purely mechanical, which i have always had a natural taking to. If you have an interest a good place to start is, A. Graham Bell's "Two-Stroke Performance tuning" and "Four-Stroke Performance Tuning". They're pretty heavy reading but very informative!

On the electrical side of things i work in electronics so that doesn't take a lot, and anything i don't know myself i can just ask someone at work.

Will hopefully be starting the strip down in the next couple of weeks :]

Geo
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UKTyler
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by UKTyler on Sun 24 Nov 2013, 12:12 pm

I've just seen this, I thought with the mods to the bike it might suit:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-Cb-500-Race-Exhaust-Underseat-Stainless-Top-Quality-/121217196206?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1c391ba0ae

Not long left though.
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G3o
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by G3o on Sun 24 Nov 2013, 12:27 pm

UKTyler wrote:I've just seen this, I thought with the mods to the bike it might suit:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-Cb-500-Race-Exhaust-Underseat-Stainless-Top-Quality-/121217196206?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1c391ba0ae

Not long left though.
too late :[ already ended. Although to be fair, doesn't look complex. Saved the pictures. Might see what i can do! 

Thanks for posting :]
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HomeBrew
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by HomeBrew on Sun 24 Nov 2013, 2:45 pm








What about this big old bolt can that be chopped off? I've been reading Four stroke performance, great book. One quote: "the air box fitted to most motorcycles has a devastating affect on their performance" Going to copy some of your mods on my airbox.
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G3o
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by G3o on Sun 24 Nov 2013, 3:04 pm

HomeBrew wrote:







What about this big old bolt can that be chopped off? I've been reading Four stroke performance, great book. One quote: "the air box fitted to most motorcycles has a devastating affect on their performance" Going to copy some of your mods on my airbox.
That bolt was just put in to keep the thread clean, the original had been sheared off :]
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HomeBrew
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by HomeBrew on Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:49 pm

Has anyone experimented with tuned exhaust headers? Bell gives the formula for the primary pipe length = ((850 X ED)/rpm)-3 where ED = 180 plus the number of degrees the exhaust valve opens past BDC. But how do you know / measure how many degrees that is?
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G3o
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by G3o on Sun 24 Nov 2013, 6:57 pm

HomeBrew wrote:Has anyone experimented with tuned exhaust headers? Bell gives the formula for the primary pipe length = ((850 X ED)/rpm)-3 where ED = 180 plus the number of degrees the exhaust valve opens past BDC. But how do you know / measure how many degrees that is?
Attach a degree wheel to the end of your crank
take off the rocker cover but leave the cams in place
Get your pistons to TDC/BDC
align the degree wheel with a measurable 0 point
manually turn the crank and stop when the exhaust valve closes
If you now look at what point the measurable 0 point is pointing to on the degree wheel you have your number

Be sure to measure each of the 4 exhaust valves and either adjust them so they are all the same or use the average of them all :]


I honestly don't think working with tuned exhausts will make all that much difference on a CB to be honest. You will only notice a difference on an engine that has very high tolerances, Highly strung sports bikes. The tolerances within the CB engine are so big that the cost/performance increase ratio will be vast!
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G3o
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by G3o on Sun 01 Dec 2013, 12:08 am

So erm... I did a bad thing today! ... it is the best kind of bad thing ... but a good thing none the less!

Trawling through eBay the other day while i should have been working I came across a lovely little GSXR 400 sp. It was a none starter due to an electrical fault but other than that seemed in very nice condition. 

At the time it was on a current bid of £600, just as a bit of a whimsy i raised it to £620 and thought nothing more of it. 

Two days later, just before 3pm this afternoon, my phone starts shouting at me. 

"eBay Message: Enjoy your GSXR 400 sp" 

...

...

...

affraid WHAAAAAAAAAAAA...?!!!!! 

So i am now the, somewhat unexpected and surprised owner of a 1991 GSXR 400 sp!












The fairings are only loosely fitted in the photos, I will be going to collect it next Sunday. From what i can see in the photos it is a very nice example. Slightly higher milage than i would like at about 43k but considering it is 22 years old that is a little under 2k a year! Can't argue with that! 

I will check the valve clearances as a matter of course, and might change the piston rings if required. Other than that i intend to keep it pretty much standard engine wise.

As you can see in the image below there is some damage to one of the air intakes but that shouldn't be a difficult fix.



Suspension will more than likely get updated and the geometry modified, but certainly will not be getting a huge amount done!

This will be my project to work on after the CB, but it will no doubt get worked on at times when i lack inspiration on the CB! I will be pulling out the loom as soon as i get it home and rebuilding it from the ground up with modern connectors and fittings. Late 80s early 90s electrics have some ... issues!
Depending on the lay out of the wiring I will more than likely route everything back to a central distribution box. So all the electrics on the bike are sourced from one point. Provided it is all labeled up properly and you can figure out what leads where it should make fault finding very easy. 

This will become my weekend toy and the CB will remain my general run around and trip bike.
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G3o
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by G3o on Thu 12 Dec 2013, 12:07 am

Well i moved my stuff to storage over the weekend



and moved the GSXR up tonight. 

Its not as roomy as i would like, there wasn't a unit as large as i had hoped for available so i has a size smaller. But When i've tidied up and condensed my stuff down a bit i think i can fit everything in. 

On the CB side of things i have done absolutely nothing. Cant start work on it until i get organised and i have the space to start stripping it. 

On the GSXR side of things, i picked it up on Sunday just gone, got it home and instantly took the fairings off. Checked all the obvious things first, battery had 0.42 volts charge so that went on the optimate straight away and was recovered by the next morning. One of the fuses was blown so i replaced it turned the ignition key to try my luck and nothing happened... checked the fuse i had just replaced and it was blown again... HMMMMM!!! 

Pulled out the fuse box took out the block connector on the bottom to find...





needless to say, it was FUBAR!

I cut off the connector and re-crimped the wires, wrapped them in electrical tape as a temporary means of stopping them shorting on each other, put them back on the fuse box, turned the ignition key, success! All the lights came on!

Now how far can i push my luck! 

Tentatively pressed the started button...

...


and she turned over like a beaut! The tank wasn't on so i'm not sure if it would actually have started.

I thought fantastic, Job Jobbed and i saved myself a couple of grand buying a working one! I re-dressed all the wiring i had unwrapped and tidied it all up with zippy ties. Went to turn it over again to make sure i'd not knocked any connectors loose while tiding up... 

...


And the CDI started smoking like a trooper ;[ Bollocks!

Well lets cut the bastard open and see what is going on. I was quite hopeful that it would just be a cap that had blown out. Cut it open and spent a couple of evenings cutting away the silicone they encase the board in and was once again out of luck when i found:






So that is pretty much buggered! Annoyingly i cannot even trace which circuit the fault originated from because all the tracks are blown out and melted. 

I have found a chinese company that will produce CDIs to order, just have to provide the CDI number, bike make/model. Getting them to send me one with a case and PCB separately so i can check it all over before installing it. 

With a bit of work i think i can figure out the maximum voltage input for each of the wires going to the CDI and put a fail safe fuse box in place so if the maximum current going into the CDI is exceeded the fuse will blow before any damage occurs within the CDI. 

I will also be making a circuit diagram of the CDI, provided it is only a single layer PCB so if it fails again i can get one made locally and populate it myself which should be considerably cheaper than buying one in. 

I think the CDI just blew out because of a fault over time rather than one big blow out. But i will be completely re-wiring the bike just for peace of mind. That is now two components that have potentially failed due to age and general wear. 

More on the CB soon i promise :]

Geo
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G3o
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by G3o on Sun 23 Mar 2014, 7:39 pm

Hey,

Sorry for the lack of updates on this, I've been insanely busy and equally skint! I am once again back on track with bikes and have already started work again on the CB.

A number of issues have cropped up due to lack of use over the last few months which I am slowly rectifying. The steering head bearings have needed changing for a while which was done last weekend. The front break pads need changing because the disk rusted onto them and they now feel... just plain nasty! And the rear brake light switch is knackered!

I don't have any pictures of the bearing change I'm afraid because it was an absolute pig! If anyone is considering doing their steering head bearings, think carefully before starting. The bearing cups are seated flush with the steering tube so there is no means of knocking them out! I had to grind them out in the end and even then it was a struggle. 

Most of the free time I have had recently has gone into fixing the GSX-R. It was a much easier fix than expected so it will soon be on the road, at which point I will hopefully be able to give the CB a proper going over and get it back up to scratch. More updates soon! I promise! 

Geo
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by G3o on Thu 03 Jul 2014, 1:02 pm

Hi Again, just a mini update, this project for put on hold because I needed the cb on a daily basis for getting to and from work, the gsxr is now ready to go just awaiting mot tax and insurance, when that is sorted it will have a weeks reliability test and then it will change places with the CB as my daily transport. 

The CB will then be stripped down and rebuilt with the addition of a nice turbo!!! It is Happening!!! Stay tuned Very Happy
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badseeds
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by badseeds on Fri 04 Jul 2014, 12:07 am

G3o wrote:The CB will then be stripped down and rebuilt with the addition of a nice turbo!!! It is Happening!!! Stay tuned Very Happy

I can't wait for this!  cheers
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eternally_troubled
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by eternally_troubled on Tue 08 Jul 2014, 2:20 pm

Interesting - where (have you/are you planning to) source the turbo from?

Good luck with the GSXR...
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Jameshambleton
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by Jameshambleton on Fri 08 Jul 2016, 8:34 pm

This was such a great read but it would seem that @g3o hasn't visited the site since January 2015 does anyone know what happened with the project? As it's such a great read, and I want to know more!!!  cheers
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G3o
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by G3o on Tue 12 Jul 2016, 8:12 pm

Just got an email saying this topic had got a reply, can't believe people are still after updates on it haha. 

Unfortunately shortly after my last update I was offered an opportunity I couldn't refuse. As a result i moved 200 miles up North. The house we moved into didn't have the facilities for me to be able to take 2 project bikes and my GPZ600r with me so the CB was put back to standard and sold on. The GSXR was also sold with some minor running issues. 

The CB still stands as one of my favorite bikes to date and now we are settled in, I have considered getting another. 

The final version of the CB was slightly better than it was in my last update. It was back off the road having been replaced by a car and had the modified cylinder head fitted and set up. It ran absolutely sweet as a nut. The set up was easy enough, but I had to set the carbs off balance to get it to run smoothly. That was purely down to the fact that the ports were not absolutely identical on both cylinders, so not all that surprising. 

The rear-sets were designed and waiting to be sent off for prototypes to be made but the project had to be stopped before i got that far. 

I had sourced a turbo off an original mini that would have fitted just infront/below the engine between the engine and the down pipes. It would have required a bit of cutting/welding of the exhaust but nothing too drastic. I had started on the mounting but.. sadly... again it never got finished.

I hope this alleviates some of your curiosity, if ever I get an opportunity I may well give it another shot! 

Thanks,
G3o
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ratatooie
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by ratatooie on Wed 13 Jul 2016, 4:50 pm

Thanks for the final update. I was also really interested reading through and only noticed the dates after Jameshambleton posted the bump!
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by eternally_troubled on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 10:39 am

Thanks for the final update - if you get another CB500 you know we'll want to know!
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Jameshambleton
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Re: Project hooligan!

Post by Jameshambleton on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 12:16 am

Did you ever keep the head with all the work that you've done to it?

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